Oil cooler question

[Dajkzo]

Hi,

In building the 440 replacement for my 383 I started thinking about oil temps. (Was reading some tech articles on oil) The 440 is going to make around 500 hp (ported 440-source heads and the STL 3842 cam). Anyone running an oil cooler and would like to chime in, I'm open to suggestions. I know it's borderline overkill, but so is the 7 qt Milodon road-race pan and most of the internals. I'm partial to this model, it has AN fittings which I prefer over hose clamps.

https://www.manciniracing.com/deenoilcokit2.html

What's everybody running?
As far as oil goes, I've been happy with full synthetics for going on 30 years and my machine shop likes clearances on the on the bigger side with heavier viscosity and a HV pump.

 

[Wietse]

I am not running any oil cooler, but before i would add one i would make sure first what the oil temperature is.
If on the high side, would still pick a system with a thermostat over one without.

Oil being too hot is not good, but too "cold" also is not good.
Would make sure the oil stay's at 190 Deg F as a minimum.

 

[493 Mike]

I am not running any oil cooler, but before i would add one i would make sure first what the oil temperature is.
If on the high side, would still pick a system with a thermostat over one without.

Oil being too hot is not good, but too "cold" also is not good.
Would make sure the oil stay's at 190 Deg F as a minimum.

It needs to hit at least 212* to boil out the water. If I recall, about 1 gallon of water is formed for every gallon of gas combusted and some of that goes past the rings.
Mike

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Wow.....there is some very wise advice above. For me, I've run an "off the shelf" oil cooler and transmission cooler both on a "brand X" vehicle and have very good engine & transmission life. The first engine & trans both lasted 250,000+ miles. That's just one car, but I bought both coolers for maybe $100 total and I'm satisfied with my purchase

 

[Wietse]

Off course does keeping things cool extend service life.
But you don't want to drive around with too low oil temperatures when just cruising.
If no thermostat is added it means oil always goes through the cooler and might get too cold.
Guess also depends were you live, hot climate all year round might be not as critical but like were i live you can have 30+ Deg C in summer and below 0 Deg C winter time.
All modern cars have these small engine oil coolers which are cooled by cooling water to maintain a certain minimum temperature which is controlled by the coolant thermostat.
These coolers have multiple functions, it helps bringing temperatures up faster when cold, are cheaper then a separate tube or plate cooler and don't take much space as well.
It all comes down to required viscosity and desired temperature range, which you should check before adding, or removing, a cooler.

 

[Dajkzo]

Thanks for the input. After a little more research I settled on these components and will make the AN-10 lines.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-501erl
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-510erl
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-51010

The key item is the Earl's thermostatic valve which opens fully at 180ºF.
Right now the 383 in the car has an oil temp of 220º and will climb above 230º in traffic. Coolant temps will sit right at 185º while moving and the other day it was 95º and sitting in traffic the coolant temp was a little over 200.

I have the 3 core 26" radiator and it looks fine, but it's a few decades old so before installing the 440, I plan on doing an upgrade to the cooling system and install the oil cooler. No A/C and manual trans, but more power = more heat as a byproduct. I want to be able to run as much timing as the engine needs and not have to worry about preignition.

 

[wyrmrider]

Ford coolers fit and are widely used and inexpensive
I fit a 73 New Yorker 4 core in my dakota (3/8's tubes)
It just died and I had trouble getting a 4 core and ended up with a 3 core with half inch tubes (but more fins per inch) I had 3" tanks
not bad for a 45 year life of a factory radiator
another thing to think of is oil- which is constantly changing
currently european spec (MB229.52 and BMW LL spec) like 0-w40 made from natural gas is about as good as you can get group IV-V synthetic
base is so good that few additives are needed so it does not shear down like dino or group III synthetics but do not use with e-85
the OW works good on cold starts where most of your wear happens
actually about as thin at higher temps as it does not thin down much with heat- that's how it gets the 40 Hot rating

 

[Wietse]

the OW works good on cold starts where most of your wear happens

Cold starts are the indeed the #1 source of wear.
At work, working with Caterpillar 3516 series diesel engines, they have a pre-lube system installed which fills the oil gallery until a certain pressure is reached and then cranks the engine.
To spoil my engine, i always have been thinking on how to install a small lube pump on it the prime it before starting. (like at real cold start only)
Probably over-kill though.

 

[wyrmrider]

PRESSURE BOTTLES AR AVAILABLE THAT FILL WHILE RUNNING THEN TRIGGER BEFORE STARTUP
damn caps lock
turbo guys also use to lube and cool down after shutoff

 

[Wietse]

Did never came across them, now looking for it i found some manufacturers.
Where to hook this up? At the pressure sensor is not really good i think, not sure if it fills all system from there?

 

[Dajkzo]

Did never came across them, now looking for it i found some manufacturers.
Where to hook this up? At the pressure sensor is not really good i think, not sure if it fills all system from there?

Here is an accumulator that is also a prestart lube system.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-24-126/overview/

The port next to the oil pressure sender (rear of the block)is a good spot to connect an accumulator. It will create oil pressure to the oil galleries and bottom end until the oil pump takes over.

These are popular on super-charged marine engines where they want oil pressure to the blowers at startup. If you seize an engine while running between Florida and the Bahamas it really makes for a bad day.

 

[Wietse]

Thx gents,
Sorry for going off topic here but could not resist.

 

[Dajkzo]

No problem. Notice I avoided talking about oil viscosity and brand. LOL Otherwise we'll need to pour a large beer and get comfortable.

 

[Wietse]

No problem. Notice I avoided talking about oil viscosity and brand. LOL Otherwise we'll need to pour a large beer and get comfortable.

Yep, then you better install the computer next to the fridge.

 

[rrTor-Red]

PRESSURE BOTTLES AR AVAILABLE THAT FILL WHILE RUNNING THEN TRIGGER BEFORE STARTUP
damn caps lock
turbo guys also use to lube and cool down after shutoff

Like this https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/mel-mpl-101/overview/

 

[Wietse]

If i will go for one i will take a fixed accumulator and install it permanently in the car.
Will be easy hook up at the same port for the oil pressure sensor.