Overcharged?

[RJRENTON]

I wonder if this whole time, the Electronic Ignotion is responsible for ALL of this?
Would POINTS be a better fix?

Thanks!!

I guess it all comes down to one's philosophy and beliefs or needs or wants.....or like the old expression: "what came first..the chicken or the egg". For an occaisional use vehicle perhaps a simple points system may be best.....or NOT.....
BOB RENTON

 

[Nacho-RT74]

God!

 

[Nacho-RT74]

I wonder if this whole time, the Electronic Ignotion is responsible for ALL of this?
Would POINTS be a better fix?

Thanks!!

Ignition system has nothing to do with this.

Not sure you are getting it, NO Packard connectors in that circuit!

As mentioned by 72RoadrunnerGTX, the problem is the terminal weakness, not the wires per se

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

How about a resistance spec? There's a guy on YouTube who runs this test how to tell good from bad?
View attachment 1259391

....first, iddle is not a word and means nothing. The alternator can produce 45-55 amps at idle IF, the origional design had the correct stator windings and diodes and the field were fully energized and the operating RPM were above the design threshold minimum
Perhaps you should just sit back and listen rather than speculate......
BOB RENTON

First, hey there Bobby, did you know that "origional" is not a word either, and means nothing?

Second, it appears the OP from his forum name has a 1969 model, yet one of his posts show and talk about a 1970+ model voltage regulator. Of course we all know they are wired differently. (Single TERMINAL field winding vs. Dual TERMINAL field winding.)

So this makes me wonder exactly what car he's working on and if truly a '69, has he made the correct modification to use the newer alternator/regulator setup?

Carry on, all!

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

I guess it all comes down to one's philosophy and beliefs or needs or wants.....or like the old expression: "what came first..the chicken or the egg". For an occaisional use vehicle perhaps a simple points system may be best.....or NOT.....
BOB RENTON

Jeezz Bobby, that AIN'T no word either. What's up with you lately?

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Second, it appears the OP from his forum name has a 1969 model, yet one of his posts show and talk about a 1970+ model voltage regulator. Of course we all know they are wired differently. (Single TERMINAL field winding vs. Dual TERMINAL field winding.)

So this makes me wonder exactly what car he's working on and if truly a '69, has he made the correct modification to use the newer alternator/regulator setup?

Carry on, all!

I believe there are some other threads here by this OP that indicate he is running a reproduction ’70 harness in a ’69 to support electronic ignition and electronic voltage regulator with dual isolated field alternator.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

I believe there are some other threads here by this OP that indicate he is running a reproduction ’70 harness in a ’69 to support electronic ignition and electronic voltage regulator with dual isolated field alternator.

I was not aware of those threads, but that is what I was wondering if was the case. Thanks!

 

[RM23M9A]

First, hey there Bobby, did you know that "origional" is not a word either, and means nothing?

Second, it appears the OP from his forum name has a 1969 model, yet one of his posts show and talk about a 1970+ model voltage regulator. Of course we all know they are wired differently. (Single TERMINAL field winding vs. Dual TERMINAL field winding.)

So this makes me wonder exactly what car he's working on and if truly a '69, has he made the correct modification to use the newer alternator/regulator setup?

Carry on, all!

Hi there, 1969-1/2 A12 Super Bee, 440 Six Pack with electronic ignition..

Thanks by the way!

 

[RM23M9A]

bypass or parallel paths....a circuit cannot be bypassed and at the same time parallel (to what?)..be descriptive in terms of drawings, photographs and calculations to prove your point. The alt able to source 45-55 amps at iddle.....first, iddle is not a word and means nothing. The alternator can produce 45-55 amps at idle IF, the origional design had the correct stator windings and diodes and the field were fully energized and the operating RPM were above the design threshold minimum
Perhaps you should just sit back and listen rather than speculate......
BOB RENTON

Im thinking I should finally buy an Amp Clamp, for my little DVOM.. Wonder how many AMPS these reman alternators actually put out?! It may say "55" "60" "70 amp" on a lable or website, but hell could be pushing 100+ ?! Hate to think of that..
That would have been a next question, who to trust with buying an alternator? LoL

Sorry this got so Out There!
Hopefully it can be a learing thread down the road for what looks to be a common thing!

(Thanks once more!)

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

Im thinking I should finally buy an Amp Clamp, for my little DVOM.. Wonder how many AMPS these reman alternators actually put out?! It may say "55" "60" "70 amp" on a lable or website, but hell could be pushing 100+ ?! Hate to think of that..
That would have been a next question, who to trust with buying an alternator? LoL

Sorry this got so Out There!
Hopefully it can be a learing thread down the road for what looks to be a common thing!

(Thanks once more!)

Just a little FYI for you.

Just because an alternator is "rated" at 100 amps (or any rating) does NOT mean that it ALWAYS puts out that amount of amps (current). The alternator output will ONLY be the amount equal to the total "Load" of the circuit. It means it CAN put out 100 amps if needed (or whatever the rating is) but not that it always does so.

In the case of a prolonged discharge of the battery with the engine off, when you first start the car the alternator will put out more current than the load (possibly near the max rating) to compensate for the discharged state of the battery and to quickly replenish the battery capacity. This is what you often see when your ammeter shows a large CHARGE rate and then gradually tapers off to near zero current as the battery comes up to normal charge.

So to summarize, if you have not added a bunch of aftermarket items to increase the electrical load of the vehicle, the 100 amp alternator does little more than the factory original alternator would have done.

 

[RM23M9A]

Just a little FYI for you.

Just because an alternator is "rated" at 100 amps (or any rating) does NOT mean that it ALWAYS puts out that amount of amps (current). The alternator output will ONLY be the amount equal to the total "Load" of the circuit. It means it CAN put out 100 amps if needed (or whatever the rating is) but not that it always does so.

In the case of a prolonged discharge of the battery with the engine off, when you first start the car the alternator will put out more current than the load (possibly near the max rating) to compensate for the discharged state of the battery and to quickly replenish the battery capacity. This is what you often see when your ammeter shows a large CHARGE rate and then gradually tapers off to near zero current as the battery comes up to normal charge.

So to summarize, if you have not added a bunch of aftermarket items to increase the electrical load of the vehicle, the 100 amp alternator does little more than the factory original alternator would have done.

Makes complete sense!
Thanks!!

 

[RJRENTON]

Just a little FYI for you.

Just because an alternator is "rated" at 100 amps (or any rating) does NOT mean that it ALWAYS puts out that amount of amps (current). The alternator output will ONLY be the amount equal to the total "Load" of the circuit. It means it CAN put out 100 amps if needed (or whatever the rating is) but not that it always does so.

In the case of a prolonged discharge of the battery with the engine off, when you first start the car the alternator will put out more current than the load (possibly near the max rating) to compensate for the discharged state of the battery and to quickly replenish the battery capacity. This is what you often see when your ammeter shows a large CHARGE rate and then gradually tapers off to near zero current as the battery comes up to normal charge.

So to summarize, if you have not added a bunch of aftermarket items to increase the electrical load of the vehicle, the 100 amp alternator does little more than the factory original alternator would have done.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.....exactly how the system is supposed to work...
BOB RENTON

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Just a little FYI for you.

Just because an alternator is "rated" at 100 amps (or any rating) does NOT mean that it ALWAYS puts out that amount of amps (current). The alternator output will ONLY be the amount equal to the total "Load" of the circuit. It means it CAN put out 100 amps if needed (or whatever the rating is) but not that it always does so.

In the case of a prolonged discharge of the battery with the engine off, when you first start the car the alternator will put out more current than the load (possibly near the max rating) to compensate for the discharged state of the battery and to quickly replenish the battery capacity. This is what you often see when your ammeter shows a large CHARGE rate and then gradually tapers off to near zero current as the battery comes up to normal charge.

So to summarize, if you have not added a bunch of aftermarket items to increase the electrical load of the vehicle, the 100 amp alternator does little more than the factory original alternator would have done.

Just what I allways say. More amps just to guarantee the alt capacity to feed everything the car needs at the lower RPMs as posible... i.e. AT IDDLE

This will leave the batt out of the game as much as posible and alt won't be recharging it constantly after being sucked out, which will be a load won't be running throught the system anymore. The constant battery charge status when reving up is what actually burnt out the bulkhead paths along the years. Saving this will get peace to the stock design charging network, for those who want to keep it.

Terminals used on the Mopar "fleet cars" such as Taxis an Police which usually came out from factory with more load requirememts hence bigger alts ( leece neville ) where the Molex kind ( big ones, can't recall the size ) and run out of the bulkhead. This terminals are more amps capable. However per 72RoadrunnerGTX experience, he made at dealer shops a straight wiring without terminals, throught the firewall.

Momentarily I made the same around 15 years ago, straight wire throught the firewall, HOWEVER will be changing to the "quick disconect link" setup ( in 10 gauge ) when reassembling my car. The ones used to trailers, to keep the disconect versatility. Althought I have not removed the bulkhead paths, but just being parallel to them.

And as mentioned, get an alt able to source anything between 45-55 amps AT IDDLE and your charging system will be gratefull and in peace.

Usually per what I have checked on most of alt specs with Y winding stators design ( Mopar ) the iddle capacity use to be at 55-60% of its full output capacity. So a 100 amps alt could be on 55-60 amps at iddle CAPACITY, which doesn't mean will be SOURCING that. Just if is requested. This changes a bit also depending on alt pulley diameter.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Being graphic ( not maths involved neither specific technical details, just being basic and easy to understand, sure there is more involved ) I wrotte up this thread 15 years ago. If you check the diagrams will understand how the load flows throught the wiring and what the amm reading means according with the load flow and car demand/request.

My english is not perfect, even less 15 years ago on that thread but I hope you'll get the idea

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0/all.html

Disrespectful reply to this in 3, 2, 1...

( Thanks God this is the only board of those I'm member where I'm having this "problem" )

 

[RM23M9A]

Just what I allways say. More amps just to guarantee the alt capacity to feed everything the car needs at the lower RPMs as posible... i.e. AT IDDLE

This will leave the batt out of the game as much as posible and alt won't be recharging it constantly after being sucked out, which will be a load won't be running throught the system anymore. The constant battery charge status when reving up is what actually burnt out the bulkhead paths along the years. Saving this will get peace to the stock design charging network, for those who want to keep it.

Terminals used on the Mopar "fleet cars" such as Taxis an Police which usually came out from factory with more load requirememts hence bigger alts ( leece neville ) where the Molex kind ( big ones, can't recall the size ) and run out of the bulkhead. This terminals are more amps capable. However per 72RoadrunnerGTX experience, he made at dealer shops a straight wiring without terminals, throught the firewall.

Momentarily I made the same around 15 years ago, straight wire throught the firewall, HOWEVER will be changing to the "quick disconect link" setup ( in 10 gauge ) when reassembling my car. The ones used to trailers, to keep the disconect versatility. Althought I have not removed the bulkhead paths, but just being parallel to them.

View attachment 1259929

And as mentioned, get an alt able to source anything between 45-55 amps AT IDDLE and your charging system will be gratefull and in peace.

Usually per what I have checked on most of alt specs with Y winding stators design ( Mopar ) the iddle capacity use to be at 55-60% of its full output capacity. So a 100 amps alt could be on 55-60 amps at iddle CAPACITY, which doesn't mean will be SOURCING that. Just if is requested. This changes a bit also depending on alt pulley diameter.

That sounds like MY fix there!
Studied the book a bit last night, looks like I as said, run a 12 Ga, STRAIGHT thru from ALT (R6-12blk) to the "Splice", and Id be good..All these years and all of the cars Ive had and seen with that "J"terminal Drilled out, was right!? Wow.. I get it now.. I just hope I didnt COOK anything else.

Thanks a Lot!

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Terminals used on the Mopar "fleet cars" such as Taxis an Police which usually came out from factory with more load requirememts hence bigger alts ( leece neville ) where the Molex kind ( big ones, can't recall the size ) and run out of the bulkhead. This terminals are more amps capable. However per 72RoadrunnerGTX experience, he made at dealer shops a straight wiring without terminals, throught the firewall.

Yes, some factory applications used additional Molex disconnects in the charge circuit in the engine harness. Again, for no other reason than making assembly quicker. Guess what, those also burned up. There is no electrical need for any disconnects in that circuit. Any disconnects present are only potential failure points. Those trailer disconnects are no better than anything the factory did. If you have to use a disconnect, look at Anderson powerpoles or other modern automotive sealed terminations designed for serious current.

You don’t have to cut open the dash harness to get at splice 1, go straight to the alternator side of the ammeter, double up over the factory black lead.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Yes, I'm looking forward to Anderson powerpoles sooner or later. As mentioned, Molex terminals are just a bit stronger than Old packard 56/58 terminals, because they have more contact surface than the flat terminals, but they are not the big hit or solution, just a bit better.

Later Chrysler spade terminals used since 77 as far I recall are also a bit stronger than the old packards. They are longer and without gaps like male packards get to make the "spring" loaded locking side tab, making to get more contact surface too so being able to hold more amps. The locking tab on the laters is on the plastic conector on them, and the terminal gets the cut for it which is not into the terminals contact surface.

About the quick disconect link use... having/keeping the stock path in use and being parallel to it, I'm quite in peace with them.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Yeap, 77

 

[RM23M9A]

Yes, some factory applications used additional Molex disconnects in the charge circuit in the engine harness. Again, for no other reason than making assembly quicker. Guess what, those also burned up. There is no electrical need for any disconnects in that circuit. Any disconnects present are only potential failure points. Those trailer disconnects are no better than anything the factory did. If you have to use a disconnect, look at Anderson powerpoles or other modern automotive sealed terminations designed for serious current.

You don’t have to cut open the dash harness to get at splice 1, go straight to the alternator side of the ammeter, double up over the factory black lead.
View attachment 1260032

THIS is gold.
Wow, all this time and worry and it's that easy...
That's what I'll do.
I really can't thank you enough.

And that's 12 ga?

Man Thank You ALL again!

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

And that's 12 ga?

Negative, the pictured added runs are 8 ga. Running high output alternators on all my cars/builds. Again, for stock loads, if you are going to run the wires, recommend 10 ga at a minimum.

Ammeter fully remains functional.