Scaled my car is this good or bad?

[64plymouth]

Scaled my 64 Plymouth belvedere HT. All steel 8pt roll bar no back seat ,cheap plastic race seats & no heater box. It has a 505 crossram,727 & 8-3/4 leaf spring rear. Without driver 3,462 RF 1019, LF 848 RR 746 and LR 849. Front 53.93% and Rear 46.07%. I have a Dana 60 done and will go in it before I hit the track. Not sure if these splits are good or not thoughts?

 

[rmchrgr]

That's kind of heavy IMO for what sounds like a fairly sparse interior. Figure the Dana will add 100lbs to the total so with driver (presuming around 200 lbs?) and fuel is closer to 3,800. Hardtops are heavier than post sedans because of the backlight glass.

Currently, the front-to-rear distribution is not great, you generally want more weight over the rear tires. The rear percentage will increase some amount with the Dana. At a minimum you'd want it closer to 50/50 if possible. Also, the left-to-right distribution seems odd - in front it's heavier on the right and in the rear it's heavier on the left.

 

[64plymouth]

That's kind of heavy IMO for what sounds like a fairly sparse interior. Figure the Dana will add 100lbs to the total so with driver (presuming around 200 lbs?) and fuel is closer to 3,800. Hardtops are heavier than post sedans because of the backlight glass.

Currently, the front-to-rear distribution is not great, you generally want more weight over the rear tires. The rear percentage will increase some amount with the Dana. At a minimum you'd want it closer to 50/50 if possible. Also, the left-to-right distribution seems odd - in front it's heavier on the right and in the rear it's heavier on the left.

yes the left to right weighs are what I'm concerned with.

 

[RemCharger]

Type and condition of rear springs?
Possibly the Rf bar is cranked up to compensate for a worn out RR leaf. (S/S?)

 

[64plymouth]

Type and condition of rear springs?
Possibly the Rf bar is cranked up to compensate for a worn out RR leaf. (S/S?)

SS stock springs 5 years old but only 6 passes on them. Torsion bars are original to the car 318poly. I have them cranked up to keep front end up

 

[rmchrgr]

yes the left to right weighs are what I'm concerned with.

Yeah, I'd be wondering why that is myself. Are you sure the scales were accurate? Can you re-do it and see if the results are the same? Also, as I've always know it to be, the "Right Front" is the passenger side. Could you have left and right mixed transposed?

Can't think of much that would add that much weight to one side vs. the other. If anything, it should be heavier on the left front (master cylinder, steering column and box, brake pedals, etc.) and right rear (extra leaf in spring) but yours is opposite. The center section is offset slightly to the right but I'm not sure if/how much that would affect L/R the splits.

Is your battery in the trunk? If so, what side? Should be over the right rear. Are there any extra bars around the driver? When you say steel, we're presuming it's "mild DOM" over chromoly which is obviously lighter.

 

[pnora]

yes the left to right weighs are what I'm concerned with.

I think your front readings are switched. Maybe. Where is the battery?

 

[RemCharger]

SS stock springs 5 years old but only 6 passes on them. Torsion bars are original to the car 318poly. I have them cranked up to keep front end up

Is the battery in front or back.
Try cranking up the drivers torsion bar until the front weights are close, then take a look at the RR height. This will give you indication of the actual condition of the pass rear superstock leaf spring.

 

[6PKRTSE]

Weight about right for that B Body. 50/50 used to be the number. These days with the higher horsepower cars. It's better to be alittle nose heavy to help on the power wheelies.
My Charger R/T S.E. loaded with almost every factory option weighs 4290 with a 1/4 tank of gas.
My Challenger street/strip car is all steel, all glass windows, Mega Block 528" Hemi, 25.5 C.M. cage, 2 bottles in full race weight with me in it is 3760. I tried to keep it balanced as best as possible.

 

[#41]

Your RF LR cross weight is good for a jalopy circle tracker with no sure-grip.

 

[64plymouth]

Yeah, I'd be wondering why that is myself. Are you sure the scales were accurate? Can you re-do it and see if the results are the same? Also, as I've always know it to be, the "Right Front" is the passenger side. Could you have left and right mixed transposed?

Can't think of much that would add that much weight to one side vs. the other. If anything, it should be heavier on the left front (master cylinder, steering column and box, brake pedals, etc.) and right rear (extra leaf in spring) but yours is opposite. The center section is offset slightly to the right but I'm not sure if/how much that would affect L/R the splits.

Is your battery in the trunk? If so, what side? Should be over the right rear. Are there any extra bars around the driver? When you say steel, we're presuming it's "mild DOM" over chromoly which is obviously lighter.

A circle track guy had his scales by my buddies shop, so I ran home to get my car. I thought he would know what he was doing. I suppose he could have crossed cables? Battery is in trunk RR passenger side. Roll bar is mild steel S&W kit. Interior has carpet, headliner and full dash. Manual steering and stock type manual disc in front, drums in back. The car is ill handling over 80mph

 

[rmchrgr]

A circle track guy had his scales by my buddies shop, so I ran home to get my car. I thought he would know what he was doing. I suppose he could have crossed cables? Battery is in trunk RR passenger side. Roll bar is mild steel S&W kit. Interior has carpet, headliner and full dash. Manual steering and stock type manual disc in front, drums in back. The car is ill handling over 80mph

Sounds like a basic street/strip setup. How exactly is it it "ill-handling?"

If it does not handle well at higher speeds that could be where to start looking for something that's not quite right. I'm not sure the weight distribution or L/R slits would have that much of a direct effect on handling but don't quote me on that. It may need to be aligned for down-track stability instead of street driving so when the front end is up instead of at rest.

Also, do you run radials and bias ply tires at the same time? That's generally a no-no. I don't know from first-hand experience but I've been told by guys with bias slicks that they tend to 'sway' at speed. Could that be what you are feeling?

 

[64plymouth]

Sounds like a basic street/strip setup. How exactly is it it "ill-handling?"

If it does not handle well at higher speeds that could be where to start looking for something that's not quite right. I'm not sure the weight distribution or L/R slits would have that much of a direct effect on handling but don't quote me on that. It may need to be aligned for down-track stability instead of street driving so when the front end is up instead of at rest.

Also, do you run radials and bias ply tires at the same time? That's generally a no-no. I don't know from first-hand experience but I've been told by guys with bias slicks that they tend to 'sway' at speed. Could that be what you are feeling?

It has 28in bias front runners & 29.5 X 9 bias slicks on back. I have had the car in this basic form for 20 years. Started with a low 12sec 440 to low 11s to now hopefully mid 10s. It has always been a little waggy in the rear but is getting worse. Had front suspension apart and nothing looked to bad, but still replaced all the bushing. The rear looks good I have solid eye bushing in springs and perches look ok. Not sure if housing is bent or not, but Dana will be going in soon. If I air slicks up to 20psi it's much better, but that doesn't help launch

 

[rmchrgr]

I went back and re-read a previous post where you said the T-bars are the originals - they're 60 years old and made for a Poly not a big block, guaranteed they are worn out and/or bent. I know from direct experience that driving a '64 B body with a worn out front end is borderline scary, even with a 6 cylinder driving normally on the street.

Frankly, if what you're saying is true, the T bars would be the first thing I'd be replacing if it were my car. The srpings hold up the weight of the car, if they're worn out/bent obviously that would cause all sorts of problems that can't be band-aided short of replacement. You said you replaced all the bushings - did that include the upper control arm bushings and lower contral arm pivots? Bump stops replaced? Did you check the ball joints and tie rods? Did you re-align it afterwards?

Obviously when you go faster you want to upgrade the suspension, in my mind it's a big difference between 12 and 10 seconds. Besides replacing the t-bars, the Dana may help the situation? it is slightly more 'efficient' than the 8 3/4 so it takes less power to get it going but agin, you're adding weight so it's a trade-off. Not sure that will help down-track stability though. If you replace the t-bars you'll have to get it aligned. If it's a dedicated race car you might look into aligning for the top end when the car is under full power.

When you get it out make videos of the hit and try to figure out what the car is doing and/or what it wants. At a minimum you might want to look at adjustable shocks. Does it have frame connectors?

 

[64plymouth]

I went back and re-read a previous post where you said the T-bars are the originals - they're 60 years old and made for a Poly not a big block, guaranteed they are worn out and/or bent. I know from direct experience that driving a '64 B body with a worn out front end is borderline scary, even with a 6 cylinder driving normally on the street.

Frankly, if what you're saying is true, the T bars would be the first thing I'd be replacing if it were my car. The srpings hold up the weight of the car, if they're worn out/bent obviously that would cause all sorts of problems that can't be band-aided short of replacement. You said you replaced all the bushings - did that include the upper control arm bushings and lower contral arm pivots? Bump stops replaced? Did you check the ball joints and tie rods? Did you re-align it afterwards?

Obviously when you go faster you want to upgrade the suspension, in my mind it's a big difference between 12 and 10 seconds. Besides replacing the t-bars, the Dana may help the situation? it is slightly more 'efficient' than the 8 3/4 so it takes less power to get it going but agin, you're adding weight so it's a trade-off. Not sure that will help down-track stability though. If you replace the t-bars you'll have to get it aligned. If it's a dedicated race car you might look into aligning for the top end when the car is under full power.

When you get it out make videos of the hit and try to figure out what the car is doing and/or what it wants. At a minimum you might want to look at adjustable shocks. Does it have frame connectors?

Yes it has frame connectors. We did a home front alignment. It needs to go to alignment shop for sure. Yes all bushings BJ etc replaced

 

[dvw]

The RR/LF is light. Being you have SS springs there really is a a way to add RR preload. I would suggest turning up the LF torsion bar. This will shift the weight to the LF/RR. It will also remove weight from the RF/LR. If it has enough power the way it is set-up now will cause it to drive to the right. There can be one problem with moving weight by this method. If the car is prone to long distance wheel stands, 25 feet or longer. The added weight transfered to the RR is gone when the front wheels are in the air. Then it'll be back to driving to the right. The front to rear weight bias isn't bad. Mine is 54.9% on the nose. Doesn't bother it a bit. I'd be afraid to take much off. For what it's worth it has the factory original 6 cylinder bars. Over 850 passes worth of wheelies. Yours will be fine. Lots of stuff you can do to lighten them . Mine is all steel, Dana, Mega block, full interior minus the rear seat. With my 200lbs I can get it close to 3280lbs.
Doug

 

[rmchrgr]

I was hoping you'd chime in Doug.

I replaced the OE 318 T-bars on my Duster, they were bent enough to see with the naked eye. Strut rods were bent too. 12.0 car with a small block.

 

[64plymouth]

The RR/LF is light. Being you have SS springs there really is a a way to add RR preload. I would suggest turning up the LF torsion bar. This will shift the weight to the LF/RR. It will also remove weight from the RF/LR. If it has enough power the way it is set-up now will cause it to drive to the right. There can be one problem with moving weight by this method. If the car is prone to long distance wheel stands, 25 feet or longer. The added weight transfered to the RR is gone when the front wheels are in the air. Then it'll be back to driving to the right. The front to rear weight bias isn't bad. Mine is 54.9% on the nose. Doesn't bother it a bit. I'd be afraid to take much off. For what it's worth it has the factory original 6 cylinder bars. Over 850 passes worth of wheelies. Yours will be fine. Lots of stuff you can do to lighten them . Mine is all steel, Dana, Mega block, full interior minus the rear seat. With my 200lbs I can get it close to 3280lbs.
Doug

View attachment 1427515

Thanks for the reply. I don't have a problem with wheelies (wish I did). How tight can I turn adjusters? I have about 3/4 inch of threads left

 

[dvw]

As tight as it takes. You can also loosen the right side. Have drivers weight in the car. Move them until the right rear is about 10-20 lbs heavy. Jounce the car up and down. If you have to jack it up roll it back and forth while bouncing. Then weigh it again. Do not jack it up to get on the scales. Rollit onto them. May take some wood blocks to do that.
Doug

 

[RemCharger]

Is the battery in front or back.
Try cranking up the drivers torsion bar until the front weights are close, then take a look at the RR height. This will give you indication of the actual condition of the pass rear superstock leaf spring.

. I would suggest turning up the LF torsion bar.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink.

The RR leaf pack is probably junk, because they're junk.
Need caltrac springs.