Severe alignment issue help

[odwan12]

Greetings everyone!
I just got all the mechanical done on my 1965 Satellite, on its maiden voyage yesterday i notice the vehicles jerking and pulling and see that there is severe negative camber. I take a level, set the alignment as best i can and replace all the steering components except the pitman arm.

Still, when pulling foward, the tires walk outwards and it looks as if i am going to lose my rims to the road. When going in reverse, everything is straight and peachy. I jack the car up, and the wheels come back into alignment, standing straig up and down as best i could set the camber. (Probably about -3 degrees is the best the factory adjustment will let me go.)

Am I missing something? Attached are pictures of the effects when pulling foward only a few feet.

 

[odwan12]

Here is the stance when driving in reverse..

 

[69a100]

Have you done any suspension or steering work on this?
Did you take it to have it professionally aligned, or is this a meatball, I did it in the driveway alignment by you?
After re-reading what you posted, I can see that the answers are yes.
Well, that's why your having problems. Don't be a cheapskate and go get it professionally done correctly and be done with it.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

caster, camber, and toe all have to be set with full weight on the front suspension, not with it jacked up in the air.

 

[odwan12]

69a100, i appreciate the reply. Im not a cheapskate, but i would like to drive it the alignment shop lol. I take pride in doing work myself and the results have been rewarding. I realize the need for a professional, id like to at least get it to go more than 100 feet without the tires screeching.

M&M, i may have messed that part up.... ill set it with the weight on the car! thanks !!!

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

I agree with you, the goal is to get it close so as to be drivable, then get it done precisely on a machine at the alignment shop. And doing the work yourself is ALWAYS a rewarding experience. (well, almost always anyways)

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

Just another observation, it appears that you have the torsion bars cranked up quite a bit above stock height. If so, that isn't going to do you any favors while trying to get the right geometry on the alignment. FWIW.

 

[odwan12]

M&M
-yes, the torsion bars are racked almost all the way up for two reasons: 1.) i lile this ride height and 2.) i thought this may help the negative camber issue.

although I understand why it must be aligned with the cars weight, while it was on the lift i could see the upper control arms moving a considerable amount when adjusting the cam bolts. i figured this would give me at least a more positive camber.

second, why when i go in reverse are the wheels perfect, they ride nice and dont shake left and right, skip, etc. but when going foward they walk out, i set the toe 1/8 inch in the front (off the ground).

anyway, i will get some lubed steel plates and place them under the wheels and reset the alignment. ill update tommorow

 

[odwan12]

since the idler arms and tie rod ends were shot i thought replacing them would stop the horrible bow leg my car has when moving foward

 

[Kern Dog]

You cannot adjust toe with the suspension hanging. As undesireable as it seems, these cars experience a change in toe settings as the suspension goes up and down. A correct toe setting at full compression with not be a correct toe setting at full extension.
The baseline UCA cam bolt orientation is to adjust the rear bolts and rear of the UCAs to sit toward the engine and the front cam bolts to sit towards the fender.
Improper toe settings will affect the camber because the scrub of the tires will place undue stress on the steering linkage.
Example: If the steering is set to "toe in", the tires are pointing toward each other at the front. Driving forward will make the camber go positive. If the steering is set to "toe out", the insides of the tires scrub and the camber will go negative. This is possible because the rubber bushings in the UCAs and LCAs allow enough slop for this to happen.
Another couple of things to consider: The strut rod bushings are either worn out or the retaining nuts are loose? Maybe the lower control arm pivot shafts have egged out the K member, allowing radical alignment changes?
Report back with your findings.

 

[747mopar]

Agreed, I had my car aligned then decided to drop it a bit more and it ate the tires pronto. Took it back for a realignment and he says it was way off just from lowering it another inch.

 

[odwan12]

Kern Dog, Thanks for that explanation. i will adjust accordingly with the suspension weighted. if i am still running into issues I will check the strut rods and LCA bushings. i will update accordingly.

747, Thanks for your experience.

 

[miller]

What Kern Dog said is on the mark.

But, I'll add a little...if you have any worn suspension parts, your wasting your time, until that's fixed. Yup, alignment must be done with car's weight on the tires.
If you look in the service book, it will tell you the 'order of each adjustment', no second guessing on that. Simply because adjusting one thing, will affect the next adjustment.
On your torsion bars (height) adjustment...you do what you want...though, that height adjustment is the FIRST adjustment you make. I'll toss in (from experiance) having it adjusted too high, beats the heck out of the front end parts.

 

[eric383]

After setting your "toe" with the suspension loaded, roll the car 10' then back again. Now check your "toe" again. To me it sounds like initially you had toe out. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[mopar 3 B]

After you get it to an alignment shop if they do not do a thorough inspection before attempting an alignment. Find a different shop. They are just wasting your time and thiers also.
But they have proven up front they have no idea as to what they are doing.

 

[odwan12]

Everyone. My findings are not good so far.

1st. I began with a baseline caster/camber adjustment and set the toe with the weighted suspension at an 1/8".

this resulted in the vehicle producing positive camber and skipping all over the road in the matter of feet.

i again adjusted toe, and for about a mile had a smooth, straight ride. after a sharp right turn this smooth ride was lost and i found another sloppy ride. the tires began screeching and hopping, when looking from the front you ovserved positive camber. a touh of the tire confirmed a hot surface, in only a mile.

i re-inspected the toe adjustments and found a bad sleeve. this was ordered for replacement.

I found no play in the strut rod nuts. the rubber looks decent. i am considering replacing the UCA and LCA bushings... is this recommened? the rest of the steering and ball joints are new less the pitman arm.

 

[747mopar]

Sounds like you really need to go threw your front end. Sloppy bushings can be hard to notice since they're always loaded but with the age it would be a smart move to replace them including the strut bushings. Hopefully that sleeve helps out, was it bad enough to let the tie rod slip in the threads?

 

[MW 413]

Check your UCA bushings first, most likely shot causing severe neg camber. Then have it aligned by an alignment shop. IMO for what its worth.

 

[PRND21]

caster, camber, and toe all have to be set with full weight on the front suspension, not with it jacked up in the air.

And make sure everything is tight, upper control arms aren't moving around. Good Luck.