Shot adjusters and pushrods

[evilmopar]

Hi everyone! I just found some issiues with my new valvetrain and looking for the cause of it… have anyone seen this? It has only a few minutes of run time (less than 1h) new cam, new lifters, new harland sharp rockers. Two of the adjusters on right bank are shot and four on the left and the pushrods aswell. I have ordern new adjusters and all new pushrods… i had the lash pretty rough adjusted on startup and then adjusted when it got hot. But maybe they where gone before it got hot due to rough lash or not enough lube at startup? What do you experts think? (Cam and lifters, valves are unharmed)

 

[ckessel]

Never seen anything like that. Can you get them Rockwell[ hardness] tested?

 

[threewood]

Wow!!! With that many flattened out I would suspect soft metal. I've never seen those deform like that. Do you have pictures of the damaged pushrods?

 

[493 Mike]

Can you tell us the brand of push rod? You verified oil to the top end when prelubing? You did prelube? Any difference in radius of the balls and sockets? Just some topics for thought.
Mike

 

[evilmopar]

Can you tell us the brand of push rod? You verified oil to the top end when prelubing? You did prelube? Any difference in radius of the balls and sockets? Just some topics for thought.
Mike

The pushrods are smith brothers 3/8s and 0.080 thickness with 5/16 cup. I’ve been running them for 5 years no problems with ductile iron rockers. Just changed to Harland Sharp rollers and this heppened. Yes i pre lubed the engine while it was on engine stand without covers to verify there was oil to the rockers on both sides.

 

[evilmopar]

Wow!!! With that many flattened out I would suspect soft metal. I've never seen those deform like that. Do you have pictures of the damaged pushrods?

I can get pictures tomorrow. Have been running those pushrods for 5 years with ductile iron rockers.

 

[threewood]

We're these rockers ordered from a legitimate source? My first thought is that they could be Chinese made fakes. How much open pressure on the springs? Smith Bros. makes good pushrods.

 

[gkent]

That isn't the sort of wear you get from lack of lube !! My opinion is a bad installation ... possibly any of these causes. 1) the adjusters were not all backed off completely as the shafts were tightened down 2) The lash was not set in the proper sequence - perhaps some were even missed 3) adjusters were not seated in the pushrod cups.

Also, you've been running those pushrods with a different brand of rockers - which more that likely have a different geometry. So did you verify those pushrods were a suitable length for the new rockers or did you just make an assumption ?

 

[493 Mike]

As I recall it is not recommended to use wear hardened items over again on different materials, perhaps that was a issue with the excessive wear? I have done that myself but, I spun the push rods in my drill press and sanded the tips to allow a break in surface for the new interface conditions. I had no issues at the time.
Mike

 

[evilmopar]

We're these rockers ordered from a legitimate source? My first thought is that they could be Chinese made fakes. How much open pressure on the springs? Smith Bros. makes good pushrods.

Rockers are Harland Sharp from Summit racing.. Spring pressure is 625 open and 240 at seat. I don´t think it´s the pushrods since i´ve run this set for 5years

 

[evilmopar]

As I recall it is not recommended to use wear hardened items over again on different materials, perhaps that was a issue with the excessive wear? I have done that myself but, I spun the push rods in my drill press and sanded the tips to allow a break in surface for the new interface conditions. I had no issues at the time.
Mike

That could be the problem. I have a new set of pushrods in the making right now....

 

[evilmopar]

That isn't the sort of wear you get from lack of lube !! My opinion is a bad installation ... possibly any of these causes. 1) the adjusters were not all backed off completely as the shafts were tightened down 2) The lash was not set in the proper sequence - perhaps some were even missed 3) adjusters were not seated in the pushrod cups.

Also, you've been running those pushrods with a different brand of rockers - which more that likely have a different geometry. So did you verify those pushrods were a suitable length for the new rockers or did you just make an assumption ?

Could be all of those except the length that i know for sure is the correct length. Do you have any rule of thumb when you lash a new cam cold for startup. Hot lash is to be set at .022. But i think i set it to 0.018 cold. Push rods ran with a complete set of different rockers and lifters and cam, used to be solid flattappet, now a solid roller! So geometry could be different (but both were 1.6 ratio atleast)

I´m just trying to get as much info as possible so it won´t happen again when i start it up with new pushrods and adjusters.

 

[Geoff 2]

I had a few HS adjusters snap off at the nut, many years ago now. Overhardened. Your problem seems to be the opposite.

 

[451Mopar]

I have seen that on some old CAT rockers, but not HS rockers?
I would contact HS, they might want to test one of those to see if they have a problem, and might send you a new set?
Then double check the pushrod cup is getting a good oil squirt from the rocker oiling hole.
I don't restrict rocker oiling. Some people do, but I use high volume oil pumps and leave the rocker oiling stock on big blocks.
On small blocks, I have the #2 and #4 cam journals grooved.
Also on small blocks, and the Big block Trick Flow heads, the rocker oiling flows up the cylinder bolt hole. If using head studs, make the cylinder head bolt hole larger in diameter for oil clearance. Not an issue with the head bolts as the shank is undersized.

 

[padam]

The pics look like soft metal to me, or wrong radius.

There are only supposed to be 1-2 threads showing below the rocker arm for proper oiling. But if it was lack of oil I would expect to see the metal turned blue.

They should be at least file hard. See if a file will cut them easily.

 

[dvw]

I'll assume the following; The cam bearing holes are lined up so oil is getting to the shafts. The shafts are installed with the oil holes down in the correct location. The adjuster ball/pushrod cup were the same size. The adjustment/pushrod length is correct allowing the adjuster 2 threads out of the rocker. If so oil should be flowing from the hole under the rocker tip to the adjuster/pushrod cup. I've seen plenty of racecar rockers come loose when they weren't lashed correctly. Haven't seen this kind of damage unless the pushrod fell off the rocker. What do the adjusters look like? I'd be on the phone with Smith Brothers and Harland Sharp.
Doug

 

[gkent]

used to be solid flattappet, now a solid roller

And the pushrod length hasn't changed ... I find that surprising.

 

[evilmopar]

Wow!!! With that many flattened out I would suspect soft metal. I've never seen those deform like that. Do you have pictures of the damaged pushrods?

Don’t mind the discoloration of the cup that was from 5years ago when we had them made

 

[evilmopar]

I'll assume the following; The cam bearing holes are lined up so oil is getting to the shafts. The shafts are installed with the oil holes down in the correct location. The adjuster ball/pushrod cup were the same size. The adjustment/pushrod length is correct allowing the adjuster 2 threads out of the rocker. If so oil should be flowing from the hole under the rocker tip to the adjuster/pushrod cup. I've seen plenty of racecar rockers come loose when they weren't lashed correctly. Haven't seen this kind of damage unless the pushrod fell off the rocker. What do the adjusters look like? I'd be on the phone with Smith Brothers and Harland Sharp.
Doug

The adjusters are about 2 threads out, adjuaters and cups are 5/16. Cambearings are the same since total engine build 5 years ago and it came oil thru the rockers on both sides when i primed the engine while spinning the engine by hand. The biggest problem is that i live in Sweden so getting intouch with suppliers is a pita. But i’ll send them some e-mails and hope for some good advice

 

[451Mopar]

I agree those look like they were not hardened correctly. My harlan sharp rockers have been fine, but I bought them around 20 years ago.