Starter chatter when the engine warms up

[Vanderstel]

Problem: when the engine warms up, I get starter chatter when I turn the ignition to start the car

67 Satellite, rebuilt 318, 727 trans, go easy on me, wires and electricity are not my strong suit

Here are the facts, let's see if I can explain things well enough, this is driving me crazy....

1. When cold it starts fine, always
2. Once warmed up, 15-20 mine drive I get the chatter, cool down period helps
3. When warm if I manually apply 12 volts from the battery directly to the starter relay at I, I get chatter
4. Neutral safety switch is ok, if not in part or neutral nothing happens
5. Battery cable, B, is new
6. Connector wire, S, to starter relay is new
7. Battery cable to starter is new
8. Ignition switch is new, not the keyset
9. Mini starter is new
10. Starter relay is new (2nd one)
11. Battery is good
12. Starter relay ground is good
13. Engine ground straps are good, I have three
14. Wire from B to the ammeter is good, I just replaced it
NOTE: When warm and I get chatter, if I jump the starter relay (S to B) with a screw driver is works every time, no chatter

I'm lost at this point, I just don't know what to check...

 

[Lefty71]

Try a different battery, preferably new. And yes I did see that you said the battery was good.

 

[khryslerkid]

Are you saying that when you turn the key it goes click, click, click?

 

[Vanderstel]

Are you saying that when you turn the key it goes click, click, click?

Yes, very fast brrrrrrrrrp, I had someone else turn the key and it's the starter relay that's doing it.

 

[Vanderstel]

Try a different battery, preferably new. And yes I did see that you said the battery was good.

I have a spare battery, and I used jumper cables to "jump" it and it still did the same thing. Are you thinking too low amperage?

 

[khryslerkid]

It could be as simple as a bad connection. Corroded battery terminal, bad ground on the block/manifold bolt. Starter relay connection or the starter relay itself. Jumping the relay starts each time might suggest the relay.

 

[pnora]

When it acts up apply a ground wire to the ground/neutral safety switch wire at the relay.

 

[hunt2elk]

I had a similiar situation a few years ago and it turned out being the cheap battery cable I bought. A lot of the cheaper battery cables are junk. They have a poor connection between the lead end and the copper wire. Switched to a quality cable and fixed the problem.

 

[pnora]

I had a similiar situation a few years ago and it turned out being the cheap battery cable I bought. A lot of the cheaper battery cables are junk. They have a poor connection between the lead end and the copper wire. Switched to a quality cable and fixed the problem.

He says jumping the relay will start it so that should eliminate the cables.

 

[Vanderstel]

When it acts up apply a ground wire to the ground/neutral safety switch wire at the relay.

Maybe not a strong enough ground at the transmission? I'll try it

 

[wagonman]

Starter relay you are on #2 I am on #3. All off shore junk IMO. My Power Stroke got a new Glow plug relay every winter till I got an Industrial type Made in the USA. If you dont care about original I can dig the # up. And Yes the cheepo battery cables leave much to be desired, to put it mildly.

 

[Vanderstel]

Starter relay you are on #2 I am on #3. All off shore junk IMO. My Power Stroke got a new Glow plug relay every winter till I got an Industrial type Made in the USA. If you dont care about original I can dig the # up.

I bought this one at napa for $30, so I figured it was a good one, sure, get me a part number

 

[wagonman]

White Rogers # 586902 200 amp 600 peak amps more that you will ever need. Over kill yup but I like Over kill.

 

[wagonman]

I bought this one at napa for $30, so I figured it was a good one, sure, get me a part number

The Napa are BWD Broke When Delivered

 

[Geoff 2]

[1] If the relay is clicking, then faulty relay or supply voltage to it. Seems odd that it only does it when hot.
[2] If noise is from starter, it could be solenoid terminals or the Bendix drive.

 

[Lefty71]

Yes, very fast brrrrrrrrrp, I had someone else turn the key and it's the starter relay that's doing it.

Ok, so the problem is still the starter relay or wiring upstream from it (back towards the battery). It's not going to be a neutral safety switch problem, i dont think. Maybe pick up a different short cable from battery to starter relay to check...make it a heavy one. As others have pointed out....you have to be careful with the low quality stuff available today.

(( NOTE: When warm and I get chatter, if I jump the starter relay (S to B) with a screw driver is works every time, no chatter ))

This should tell you to try yet another relay, I would think.

 

[Vanderstel]

When it acts up apply a ground wire to the ground/neutral safety switch wire at the relay.

Ok, I just warmed the car and sure enough, the chatter happened when I parked it. I pulled the neutral safety wire off at the relay and ran a ground wire from the relay to the negative on the battery, and 3-4 times in a row it started, no problem.

The wire is old, I reused it when I pulled the engine and did the rebuild. So my guess it's corroded or broken inside and when it heats up, loses connectivity. So looks like I'll be replacing it.

 

[pnora]

Ok, I just warmed the car and sure enough, the chatter happened when I parked it. I pulled the neutral safety wire off at the relay and ran a ground wire from the relay to the negative on the battery, and 3-4 times in a row it started, no problem.

The wire is old, I reused it when I pulled the engine and did the rebuild. So my guess it's corroded or broken inside and when it heats up, loses connectivity. So looks like I'll be replacing it.

You should OHM the wire from the relay to the NSS. It might be a wire but it also could be the NSS or the connector.

 

[Lefty71]

It's not going to be a neutral safety switch problem, i dont think.

Call me wrong lol....sounds like you better pull the safety switch and check the comb inside for cracks too....I'm sure you already know to not bypass such an important feature.....

 

[pnora]

Call me wrong lol....sounds like you better pull the safety switch and check the comb insidefor cracks too....I'm sure you already know to not bypass such an important feature.....

He is just doing it to diagnose the issue. I agree it is an important safety feature. With that being said all the earlier stick shifts had no safety feature,