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Steering issue with my '69 Sport Satellite

mutt71

Expect nothing and you will never be disappointed.
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I am a relative "newbie" here and not all that mechanically able. When I get behind the wheel of my car, I have to chase the steering. First it will pull to the left. When I correct that by turning a bit right, it seems okay, then the problem returns. It will also pull to the right if I take a right hand turn and have to steer a little bit to the left.
I am wondering if it is the manual steering box, or something to do with the front end suspension? I am replacing systems as I have money to do so, and want to get to the bottom of this issue. Many Thanks in advance.
 
Put Firm Feel on your parts list for a steering box replacement along with all the other advice you will get here. I went stage 1 with power steering, next time would do stage 2.
 
I'm thankful for the advice. I would rather stick with the manual steering, if possible. I gather that you feel as though the steering box is the culprit, right Dennis H?
 
Thanks furyus. I was wondering about that as well, but, thought it more steering related. I guess I will take it to an alignment shop and see what they find out.
 
As furyus says, check alignment too or first might be easier. Get advice on where to get alignment done. Find an old guy who remembers these cars from back then. Three things cured my wandering steering. First added PS, then alignment. Finally it was the Firm Feel Box that resolved it with a straight drive. Someone here can send you the alignment specs. Keep us posted.
 
You can check the steering box but honestly I'm wondering if the bushings in either your LCA or strut rod (or both) are shot...
 
Many Thanks for the quick replies on my issue. This car has sat for over 20+ years. I did the whole brake system over. This is next on my list. I am looking for an Alignment shop that has been around long enough to remember these cars, as suggested above. I will post the resolution on this when I find that out.
 
I agree with the others here. I also suggest you check your alignment and front suspension parts first. I think most Midas and Meineke shops do free front end inspections (hoping to sell you the service). If everything is OK (do that first for sure), there is something on the manual steering box called a "worm gear".

The worm gear is on top of the steering box and looks like a screw driver slot inside of a large nut. You loosen the nut & turn the screw in clockwise a little (maybe 1/2 turn to full turn?), tighten the stop-nut again and test drive it. That adjustment is supposed to take out the steering slop IF the worm gear is worn. I suspect if you tighten it up when you don't need to you might wear out your steering box faster.
 
What is your caster ? You need as much positive as you can get. Use either the offsets, or do yourself a favor & call PST for a set of their tubular upper arms.
 
The most valuable tool you can have at this time is a genuine shop manual for your car. The manual lays out in detail how to check for the cause of such anomalies as well as how to remedy. Some things are easily fixed by being armed with the right information and some by tossing cash away needlessly. Which do you prefer? I had a similar problem but by consulting the shop manual I discovered my issue was actually the sum of two problems both of which were well within my abilities to repair myself. The manuals tell and show you exactly what to do to diagnose and repair. One, my pitman arm had too much slop and two my steering gear was dry and out of adjustment. Both were remedied quick and cost effectively.
 
Thanks for all of the great advice here on this thread. I will look into ALL of these possibilities, as well as look for a shop manual.
 
I think My Mopar. Com has manuals you can download for free. I did this for my Dart, and Sport Fury.
 
Auto zone used to have the Haynes Manuel for most any year car, i have one for my 73 that has helped me numerous times.. Good luck...

Try randys world wide automotive and see if they could help you if you want to stay with original, It may not be the box but they might give you a clue in whats going on, i to would try the alignment and see if it helps first but ill leave you a number for them

1-800-631-0196
 
I'm back home now after taking an unscheduled trip to Ft. Gordon in GA, for a few weeks. I did locate and bought a Factory Authorized reproduction 1969 Plymouth Shop Manual. It is on it's way to me as I type this. I called my local Midas Shop and spoke with the Manager there. I am bringing it to them tomorrow to find out just what the story is on this particular issue. He seemed to think that it is a suspension issue. We will see. Thanks again to all that responded to my request for help.
 
Sounds allot like not enough toe or just toed out, bad tie rod ends will also cause this. As mentioned an alignment is step #1 making sure they check it for worn parts whole they're at it.

- - - Updated - - -

Good to hear you got it covered.
 
Frankly, unless you find "a very special" Midas shop, that is not the correct answer. ANY of the "big box" stores are notorious for poor depth of service.

I would instead be looking for an independent shop that has been in business for a very long time. You won't find THAT answer on the internet. You'll find it by asking friends, neighbors, by 'asking around.'

YOUR car: Could be a LOT of things, from tires to alignment to worn out parts, and frankly ALL of this

======================

AS old as this car is now, and IF you have no history of the front suspension ever being rebuilt, I would "just figure" on completely going through the front end, and replace ALL wear parts. Right off the bat

CAVEAT: Replacement parts are getting more and more chineseoated. This is a HUGE problem. Someone over on FABO seems to be having big time problems with Moog ball joints. So as far as replacement brand? "Don't know" anymore. "NOS" (New Old Stock brand name Moog, Spicer, etc)

====================

Tires. Tires can have a dramatic effect on handling, wander, "cutting" back and forth across the road, but many times, this tire wear has been caused by a front end wear / alignment problem in the first place

Also mismatched tires from front to rear can be a problem. Years ago my boss had a nearly new Dodge pu and needed two new tires. Whatever they were did not like the existing front tires, and at speeds of 50 or more it felt as if it would swap ends, as if wrinkle walls were on the rear!!

====================

Upgrades. Most of these cars "were minimal" to begin with. Example: My 70 was a "V" code (440 sixpack) and it had the best, the heaviest suspension (track pak) that you could get from the factory. It was "adequate" at the time. But if you bought "that same car" (Belvedere / Satellite) with a 318 or slant six, or even a lower powered 282 Sport Satellite, you may or may not get a front anti-sway bar, you would CERTAINLY get smaller, lesser brakes, and springs and torsion bars which were much much lighter.

So keep THAT in the back of your mind. However, so far as 'going down a straight stretch" of road, even the "lighter" suspension should be able to do THAT

===========================

Alignment. Read the All-par recommendations if you are running radial tires. Recommended settings for radials are different than bias ply. Look down the page for the "skoch chart"

http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/front-end-alignment.html

That's another issue with front end shops........getting them to vary from old factory bias ply settings.

=================================

WHAT YOU CAN DO

Find a friend who as you describe, is "more" mechanically able. Go to MyMopar and download your shop manual.....free

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

You may have to settle for a Dodge manual over Plymouth, or vice versa. The don't have all of em

Then get you and your friend and go to work. Start "easy." WATCH the steering box and column, while your friend moves the steering wheel back and forth

Examine the column shaft, the coupler, and the shaft into the steering box as it moves......Look for play

Watch the steering box, and look for looseness on the mounting to the frame

Watch the pitman arm as it moves, watching the pitman and the steering shaft. The pitman should have nearly no delay as it moves with the steering shaft

Get "down" on cardboard, etc, so you can see various parts of the "underneath."

Watch the pitman arm and the steering link. The ball connecting them should have NO play as the two of them move together. Ditto each tie rod end and it's corresponding connection.

Ball joints are a little more involved. LOWER balls in these cars are a big time wear problem. Often, when they get bad, they clank and pop. READ the shop manual. You will have to jack the car up under the lower arm, and look for wear.

Upper arm? I would not even try to check it. I would just PLAN on replacing the upper bushings and ball. Likewise, I would plan on replacing ALL rubber bushings........upper arms, lower arms, strut rods, etc.

Work? If you do this yourself it IS hard work. I'm 67, I have severe arthritis, and a hoist. It takes me a LONG time to do this work.

In my "yuth" I could rebuild a front end in a weekend. Front end shops used to HATE that. I'd take the car down, squalling and bawling, squeeling the tires to the shop, with all new parts, and completely out of line. There were two "old guys" (younger 'n I am now) one and the "Chevy" garage and one at the "Poncho" dealer. Those two guys used to align my cars.

Now, in my old age..........I do it myself. I put the car on the trailer, jack it up block it up level, and align it

Bought this toe gauge and scriber off ebay. Had to cut it down, it was too tall (for trucks, LOL)

attachment.php


Bought some old Ammco turn tables cheap

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And an old Ammco caster / camber gauge

attachment.php
 
Thank you, 440roadrunner. I am almost 61 and am disabled, or I would attempt it myself. I took the car to a local Midas shop and they checked it out. Here is the listing of the necessary parts to fix the steering issue:

Rt. Lower ball joint
Inner and Outer tie rod ends
Adjusting sleeves
Center Link
Pitman Arm
Idler arm
Manual Steering box

I was told to get the parts and bring them back for installation. I will take your advice on the parts being a NOS or name brand.
 
You might check with PST, they are a sponsor here at FBBO and might have some better quality parts plus I believe you get a n FBBO discount?
 
I could afford most of the parts listed, except for the Center link.Steering box and the Adjusting sleeves. These will have to wait until I get my next disability check in about a week and a half.I will buy the parts that I do npot have now, at that point. Then get them installed and then an alignment. At that point, this system will be on my DONE list.
 
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