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Super Coil?

And as you can see, the new ECU gets straight 12V all the time as Blue ON is always hot, even as you go to Start. Start bypass the resistor to get a hotter spark turning over at low rpm. Once engine starts, the resistor is in series with coil to protect coil.
 
And as you can see, the new ECU gets straight 12V all the time as Blue ON is always hot, even as you go to Start. Start bypass the resistor to get a hotter spark turning over at low rpm. Once engine starts, the resistor is in series with coil to protect coil......
......and more importantly the fragile transistor in the chrysler electronic ignition box.
Point in case; msd blaster coil requires no ballast (!),
unless you are using it with the factory box.
Ballast unnecessary with msd box due to the more robust construction.
 
Yeh and nay. It is an integrated circuit. The box design has appropriate current limiting resistors, and more importantly Voltage spike absorbing diodes (TVS) to protect any integrated chip or transistor, and especially the power transistor. Yes coils can be designed to handle saturation better than others without being damaged by the heat.

Bottom line is to follow the directions of the manufacturer and deviate at your risk. But MOPAR put the ballast resistor in place to protect the coil. The ECU was protected by internal design. Yes, with points the ballast also limited current through the points and controlled the amplitude of the voltage spike when the points opened. Which also contributed to the spark plug duration. Hence need for the condenser.
 
Good info.
But a word to the wise- do not hook up your orange box without a resistor or you'll be the nine- thousandth " my orange box burnt out" thread.
If they have internal circuit protection- it don't work :D
 
Yeh and nay. It is an integrated circuit. The box design has appropriate current limiting resistors, and more importantly Voltage spike absorbing diodes (TVS) to protect any integrated chip or transistor, and especially the power transistor. Yes coils can be designed to handle saturation better than others without being damaged by the heat.

Bottom line is to follow the directions of the manufacturer and deviate at your risk. But MOPAR put the ballast resistor in place to protect the coil. The ECU was protected by internal design. Yes, with points the ballast also limited current through the points and controlled the amplitude of the voltage spike when the points opened. Which also contributed to the spark plug duration. Hence need for the condenser.
As a slight addendum.....the Mopar ECU switching circuit keeps the switching transistor always ON. The reluctor / pick up coil assembly in the distributor produces a pulse, when the reluctor tooth and pick up coil pole piece aligns, this pulse turns OFF the switching transistor, collapsing the magnetic field in the coil, which generates the ignition spark. The switching transistor is a IGBT device (Insulated Gate Bi-polar Transistor) with transient supressor around the current junction (to absorbe the coil's collapsing voltage spike, similar to the condenser in a points distributor). The balance of the ECU's circuit senses the coil's voltage decay and turns ON the switching transistor to recharge the coil for the next cylinder (equate to dwell time).....its a closely choreographed system.....coil, ECU, distributor, ballast resistor (to LIMIT coil current)....everyone changes the coil....in search of more HP....because it's the easiest to change.....which usually results in ECU failure ......I've dissected the ECU to determine how it works......
BOB RENTON
 
I ran the Mopar Orange ECU and Accel super coil using the Mallory Ignition 700 Ballast resistor. Never had a problem with that setup.
 
As a slight addendum.....the Mopar ECU switching circuit keeps the switching transistor always ON. The reluctor / pick up coil assembly in the distributor produces a pulse, when the reluctor tooth and pick up coil pole piece aligns, this pulse turns OFF the switching transistor, collapsing the magnetic field in the coil, which generates the ignition spark. The switching transistor is a IGBT device (Insulated Gate Bi-polar Transistor) with transient supressor around the current junction (to absorbe the coil's collapsing voltage spike, similar to the condenser in a points distributor). The balance of the ECU's circuit senses the coil's voltage decay and turns ON the switching transistor to recharge the coil for the next cylinder (equate to dwell time).....its a closely choreographed system.....coil, ECU, distributor, ballast resistor (to LIMIT coil current)....everyone changes the coil....in search of more HP....because it's the easiest to change.....which usually results in ECU failure ......I've dissected the ECU to determine how it works......
BOB RENTON
:thumbsup: agreed. The hardest worked part of the whole ignition system is the ground to trip the coil.
Much like all electrical systems.
 
The non-use of a bal res with an MSD box has nothing to do with 'more robust construction'. It is because the MSD box is a CD system [ Capacitor Discharge ] & the factory ECU is an inductive ign system. Each system works differently to deliver a spark.

Also post #27. The 'ground' [ negative ] doesn't work any { harder than the positive } because both have the same current flow.
 
Post #28 feedback always appreciated
 
I ran the Mopar Orange ECU and Accel super coil using the Mallory Ignition 700 Ballast resistor. Never had a problem with that setup.
Any idea what resistance value that ballast has?
 
The non-use of a bal res with an MSD box has nothing to do with 'more robust construction'. It is because the MSD box is a CD system [ Capacitor Discharge ] & the factory ECU is an inductive ign system. Each system works differently to deliver a spark.

Also post #27. The 'ground' [ negative ] doesn't work any { harder than the positive } because both have the same current flow.
An inductive system works by turning the coil's primary current on and off, thereby INDUCING the high spark voltage in the coil's secondary windings (the process is called inductive reactance). An MSD system uses a CAPACITOR DISCHARGE principle, where the capacitor in the MSD box, furnishes a high voltage pulse to the coil's primary winding, which in turn, raises this high voltage pulse, thru the same inductive reactance principle as previously described. The capacitor discharge system DOES NOT CREATE THE HIGH VOLTAGE SPARK VOLTAGE DIRECTLY BUT THRU THE EXISTING COIL WINDINGS.....BUT IT PROVIDES MORE ENERGY TO THE COIL'S PRIMARY (in terms of watt/seconds or Coulombs per Coulomb's Laws) FASTER, ALLOWING THE COIL TO PRODUCE MORE ENERGY IN THE SPARK VOLTAGE. The system still uses the distributor to control the on/off - when the spark occurs function. Instead of the coil's primary winding voltage of 12 volts, with a conventional ignition system, a CAPACITOR DISCHARGE IGNITION SYSTEM provides the coil's primary winding voltage approximately 400 + DC volts to yield more spark ENERGY. The term CD IGNITION SYSTEM is a misnomer but a combination of s conventional coil ignition system with a CAPACITOR furnishing the coil's energy source. Thus endith the lesson......class dismissed.......
BOB RENTON
 
An inductive system works by turning the coil's primary current on and off, thereby INDUCING the high spark voltage in the coil's secondary windings (the process is called inductive reactance). An MSD system uses a CAPACITOR DISCHARGE principle, where the capacitor in the MSD box, furnishes a high voltage pulse to the coil's primary winding, which in turn, raises this high voltage pulse, thru the same inductive reactance principle as previously described. The capacitor discharge system DOES NOT CREATE THE HIGH VOLTAGE SPARK VOLTAGE DIRECTLY BUT THRU THE EXISTING COIL WINDINGS.....BUT IT PROVIDES MORE ENERGY TO THE COIL'S PRIMARY (in terms of watt/seconds or Coulombs per Coulomb's Laws) FASTER, ALLOWING THE COIL TO PRODUCE MORE ENERGY IN THE SPARK VOLTAGE. The system still uses the distributor to control the on/off - when the spark occurs function. Instead of the coil's primary winding voltage of 12 volts, with a conventional ignition system, a CAPACITOR DISCHARGE IGNITION SYSTEM provides the coil's primary winding voltage approximately 400 + DC volts to yield more spark ENERGY. The term CD IGNITION SYSTEM is a misnomer but a combination of s conventional coil ignition system with a CAPACITOR furnishing the coil's energy source. Thus endith the lesson......class dismissed.......
BOB RENTON
System overload! All this time I thought you just throw a coil in there and away ya go. Education has taken place, thank you.
 
Bob Renton,
I didn't need a lesson/lecture on the difference in operation of CD &
Ind ign, I have known for 50+ yrs; & learned about Coulombs law, Kirchoff's law & the Maximum Power Transfer Theorem in 1964....
 
It is important that the bal res resistance is the correct value [ ohms ], not just a good guess. With Ind ign, too low in value could overheat the coil & cause failure; too high, could produce weak spark.
 
Bob Renton,
I didn't need a lesson/lecture on the difference in operation of CD &
Ind ign, I have known for 50+ yrs; & learned about Coulombs law, Kirchoff's law & the Maximum Power Transfer Theorem in 1964....
I do not particularly care what you think you know or when you learned it....btw...are you a degreed Electrical Engineer?...or just a "shirt sleeve mechanic? Just curious..
BOB RENTON
 
We all appreciate both of your knowledge and years of experience. Thank you both for sharing...
 
No Bob, I am not a shirt sleeve mechanic & those that are would be insulted by the remark because a lot of them have learned more/done more than trained engineers.
 
It is important that the bal res resistance is the correct value [ ohms ], not just a good guess. With Ind ign, too low in value could overheat the coil & cause failure; too high, could produce weak spark.
Is it possible for me to use my DVOM and check the coils resistance value and then determine the appropriate RB to intall, or is there more that needs to be added to the equation? I'm trying to upgrade the ignition in the car from a 1966 to a 1970 system. I have the correct alt, that isn't grounded to itself (the case), as well as the volt reg (2 pin), and the ign control is a 4 pin unit. Or am I not even in the ball park with this yet?
 
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