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The vibration that won't quit, what's next???????????

A tire vibration is completely different from a drive line vibration. The drive train spins at tire RPM times rear axle ratio. Therefore the speed ( amplitude ) of the vibration will be roughly 3-4 times more frequent than a tire wheel problem. For what it's worth my Challenger vibration issue has had the drive shaft runout checked as well.
Doug
 
I've been chasing a similar vibration in my 73 Challenger. Very close to the same speed range. Clutch in still shakes. It is definitely drive shaft speed (easy to tell by the speed of the vibration, tires are more slower frequency). Housing, rear axle chuck assy, axle shafts, drive shaft have all been swapped. Pinion angle is dead nuts 1.5 front and rear. The bell housing run out is less than .005" and the face has been corrected to 90 degrees to the crank C/L. The only part I haven't swapped is the 833 trans.Up to just over 50 it's perfect. It had a 2.76 gear in it when first built. Never shook. I did a burnout and shattered the trans yoke and cracked the tail housing. New yoke, housing and bushing. It's shook ever since. I'm thinking I may have bent the trans output shaft. However it makes no noise and is the best shifting 833 I've ever had.
Doug

I think we need to share notes, if we have done similar things to our cars maybe that could give us a clue as to where the problem is. I had my car lowered 1" with the tranny pointed 2.5 degrees down and the pinion 1.5 degrees up for a 1 degree difference. It vibrated with that setup but I wanted it a bit lower and went another 1" making the angles even worse (I know but whataya gonna do) with the pinion and driveshaft nearly perfectly level with no angle. Now regardless of anything else I know that is not good and needs to be addressed before I go crazy anywhere else. Here's where I went wrong with my tranny install, I made sure to get the tailshaft back where the original one was and didn't take into consideration what lowering the car 2" had done to the angles. Basically the tailshaft needs to come up which will increase the pinion u joint angle at the same time until they match. I think the biggest issue has been not the angles at the tranny and pinion but the angle at the driveshaft and pinion (nearly level) caused by a combination of the car being lowered and the downward angle of the shaft. The fix? Hmmmmm, the motor and tranny are sitting right where they were meaning everything fits nicely so I may look into a cv joint driveshaft but first will see how much higher I can tuck the tranny in there.

Thanks for all the input, I'll look into all of them this weekend.

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Another option is lowering the front of the motor or a combination of both which I'll look into.

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Dev, send me your wheels and I'll run them on my car for a few years and see if there is any issue...

Haha, don't think they are the issue but will find out soon enough when I have them checked. Just trying to get it all sorted out for that drive to Canada!!!!!
 
I think we need to share notes, if we have done similar things to our cars maybe that could give us a clue as to where the problem is. I had my car lowered 1" with the tranny pointed 2.5 degrees down and the pinion 1.5 degrees up for a 1 degree difference. It vibrated with that setup but I wanted it a bit lower and went another 1" making the angles even worse (I know but whataya gonna do) with the pinion and driveshaft nearly perfectly level with no angle. Now regardless of anything else I know that is not good and needs to be addressed before I go crazy anywhere else. Here's where I went wrong with my tranny install, I made sure to get the tailshaft back where the original one was and didn't take into consideration what lowering the car 2" had done to the angles. Basically the tailshaft needs to come up which will increase the pinion u joint angle at the same time until they match. I think the biggest issue has been not the angles at the tranny and pinion but the angle at the driveshaft and pinion (nearly level) caused by a combination of the car being lowered and the downward angle of the shaft. The fix? Hmmmmm, the motor and tranny are sitting right where they were meaning everything fits nicely so I may look into a cv joint driveshaft but first will see how much higher I can tuck the tranny in there.

Thanks for all the input, I'll look into all of them this weekend.

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Another option is lowering the front of the motor or a combination of both which I'll look into.

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Haha, don't think they are the issue but will find out soon enough when I have them checked. Just trying to get it all sorted out for that drive to Canada!!!!!

shim1.jpg
 
vibration

Man I'm at wits end with this vibration, I've checked everything that I can think of and replaced or addressed mostly everything. It's a very odd vibration, from 0 - 55 mph it's smooth as butter but once you exceed that and go into a coast like cresting a hill or just push in the clutch it vibrates pretty good (much like a really nasty exhaust drone). There is some vibration at higher speeds (65 mph +) and get's worse as you go faster but is most noticeable when unloaded (like cresting a hill). Today while driving it I'd take it up to 60 mph then push in the clutch and let it coast until the vibration stop and it always stops at about 53 mph? Hoping someone has experienced this same thing and can steer me in the right direction. This vibration existed with the original 727, driveshaft and rearend but after swapping the tranny to a T56 6 speed, installing a brand new driveshaft and putting a fresh set gears and bearing in it's mostly unchanged. The only thing that has minimized it is replacing the tail shaft bushing (had to shim it), it had .007" clearance and is now .003". Here's what I've done, checked for tranny clearance, checked for universal joint slop, checked and adjusted pinion angles, built a new gear set with all new bearings, checked and had leave springs reworked and replaced the slip yoke bushing.




If you have the clutch type sure grip there could the a problem with the clutches.
 

Already tried that! Car being lowered 2", adding passengers, hitting a big bump and a 1.5 shim installed equals driveshaft hitting the floor erhhhhhh. But even if it wasn't for it hitting the floor you have to visualize a nearly straight driveshft and pinion angle and imagine what pitching the pinion up would do. You end up with the driveshaft coming off the pinion in a downward angle (definitely not good).

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If you have the clutch type sure grip there could the a problem with the clutches.

I am runnimg the clutch typed sure grip, explain? I had it all apart and everything looked really good?
 
Had vibration in 68 RR 383 4 spd that started around 50-55 mph. It didn't do it when I first got it, then it started. Finally figured out that one time I had changed rear leaf springs, including the spring hanger. However, they were from a Dogde Charger, so the hanger was one inch longer, which moved the rear axle back one inch. Switched back to Plymouth length hangers, replaced transmission mount (old one was torn), replaced U joints just because, and that took care of it.

My RR is an antique in every sense and also has a 3.91 axle, so I would not drive it 90 mph, but I can go 70-75 mph on the interstate now if I want.
 
So that likey pulled the yoke out of the tranny far enough for it to wiggle?

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So that likey pulled the yoke out of the tranny far enough for it to wiggle? That brings up another point, the shop that made the shaft insisted that I pull the yoke an inch off the wiper seal which is 3/4" from the actual seal itself. I checked the engagement while I had the tail of the tranny off and it just barely gets all the way threw the bushing. I might address that with eithet a longer yoke or by cutting the wiper boot off and making the shaft longer.
 
So that likey pulled the yoke out of the tranny far enough for it to wiggle?

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So that likey pulled the yoke out of the tranny far enough for it to wiggle?

Yes. Looking at the yoke was what led me to figure out what I had done. I could see the polish marks on the yoke from where it used to be, compared to where it ended up after changing springs. Then I started digging around in forums and found that Dodge hangers were actually one inch longer than Plymouth for 68-69 B Body.

I also looked at pictures of where the wheel was in the wheel well. It looked more centered when the axle is moved back one inch, but that was not right for my car. When I was researching, I tried measuring wheelbase with a tape measure, but that's not something I could do accurately.
 
It looks like most ideas have been covered here. My first thought was the universal joints if the drive-shaft was new - assuming the drive-shaft was balanced when built/rebuilt. It appears that the bellhousing run-out was checked, so does that mean that the bellhousing was aligned on the engine? The only other thing I can think of now is the pilot bushing. I had one go bad on me - it actually worked loose, and 'spun up' inside the crankshaft - caused horrible screeching noise when shifting gears. Difficult to remove as the edges had flared against the crank. I ended up installing a Teflon NASCAR bush, and it's as quiet as a mouse now.

That's my 2 cents. :icon_thumright:
 
Already tried that! Car being lowered 2", adding passengers, hitting a big bump and a 1.5 shim installed equals driveshaft hitting the floor erhhhhhh. But even if it wasn't for it hitting the floor you have to visualize a nearly straight driveshft and pinion angle and imagine what pitching the pinion up would do. You end up with the driveshaft coming off the pinion in a downward angle (definitely not good).


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I am runnimg the clutch typed sure grip, explain? I had it all apart and everything looked really good?
The pinion needs to be angled down regardless and the tail shaft of the trans needs put back where it was. You can usually get away with a somewhat linear front joint but never the rear.
 
Maybe your spring perches are no longer providing the correct degree of angle in relation to the pinion driveshaft angle. As the Suspension loads and unloads the Pinion angle changes.
 
It looks like most ideas have been covered here. My first thought was the universal joints if the drive-shaft was new - assuming the drive-shaft was balanced when built/rebuilt. It appears that the bellhousing run-out was checked, so does that mean that the bellhousing was aligned on the engine? The only other thing I can think of now is the pilot bushing. I had one go bad on me - it actually worked loose, and 'spun up' inside the crankshaft - caused horrible screeching noise when shifting gears. Difficult to remove as the edges had flared against the crank. I ended up installing a Teflon NASCAR bush, and it's as quiet as a mouse now.

That's my 2 cents. :icon_thumright:

Yeap and what a pain (at least on the Viper trannies it was), you have to remove the front of the tranny, bolt it to the bell housing and then indicate it threw a dinky hole off of the flywheelbut it checked out. Pilot bearing was new as well, these trannies use a needle bearing too. Thanks

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The pinion needs to be angled down regardless and the tail shaft of the trans needs put back where it was. You can usually get away with a somewhat linear front joint but never the rear.

As for the trannies position, I used the large donut on the original 727s driveshaft as a reference since that portion of the floor would be untouched and then installed the same yoke in the Viper tranny (they use the same yoke) to locate it (all new mounts in the previous setup). I've since shimmed the tranny another 3/8" up with no change, shimmed the pinion up 1.5 degrees in an attempt to parallel the 2 angles and then today shimmed the pinion down 3 degrees with no change again. As it sits with the car raked 1" down in the front up and sitting on it's own weight the tranny is down 2 degrees, driveshaft up .2 degrees and the pinion (prior to shimming) up .8 degrees. To me this all means the tranny even though is located properly (compared to stock location) needs to go up even more to offset the car being lowered?????? I talked to a tech today that said to level the car and make sure the tranny angle is at no more than 3 degrees down and then set the pinion down 3 degrees for long leave springs, no luck.
 
image.jpgThis thread has me convinced that the next upgrade to the R/T will be to lower it 2 inches.

image.jpg
 
My vibration problem was the driveshaft length. Had a driveshaft in the car when I bought it that was for an 8 3/4 rear end, and I have a trak pak car with the Dana 60, so the driveshaft was a little too long. Got it cut and balanced and voila! no more vibration :)
 
Another huge benefit to lowering it is now I can put the grader blade for the tractor away for good, the Charger keeps it knocked down now! Alot more fun this way plus you help DOT with cleaning up roadkills as well!
 
Already tried that! Car being lowered 2", adding passengers, hitting a big bump and a 1.5 shim installed equals driveshaft hitting the floor erhhhhhh. But even if it wasn't for it hitting the floor you have to visualize a nearly straight driveshft and pinion angle and imagine what pitching the pinion up would do. You end up with the driveshaft coming off the pinion in a downward angle (definitely not good).

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I am runnimg the clutch typed sure grip, explain? I had it all apart and everything looked really good?


There are flat discs and dished ones that have to be installed in the proper order.
 
There are flat discs and dished ones that have to be installed in the proper order.

Got that, put it together the way it came apart and referred to the manual for insurance so that's good.
 
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