Throwout bearing touching fingers.

[gkent]

However, the more they wear the farther the fingers will protrude.

Guaranteed this is NOT the problem !!

 

[padam]

Guaranteed this is NOT the problem !!

Honestly I’ll be surprised if there’s just one problem

 

[TallGuy71]

Honestly I’ll be surprised if there’s just one problem

I feel like it’s definitely more than one. The fork is at such an angle that I can’t even pull it out of the bell housing. It won’t articulate enough to get the tang on the back of it out of the guiding hole (don’t know a better way to explain that) I’ve got everything in place to get it out and now I’m having to drop the aftermarket headers and pipe on the passenger side in order to get the trans cross bracket out. Stopped for dinner and hope to get back out there tonight.

 

[padam]

You can pull the trans with the fork in place

 

[ynst]

That looks like a centerforce pressure plate. They have a lot of clamp force. They shouldn’t slip with street tires.

However, the more they wear the farther the fingers will protrude. It’s possible the lining is completely wore out or stripped off.

My Centerforce pressure plate slipped like hell under load at low rpm.. Going up the hill out of Burlington, VT on the way to the highway, I had to downshift to get enough rpm to get the counterweights to work enough to prevent slippage.

Needless to say, it came out and I went back to the 11" Borg & Beck plate that's been in there since '94

 

[Bird 426]

Then you too had something wrong. If they all did that out of the box, they would no longer be in business.
What's unbelievable to me is that a shop did this, at least that's the way it sounds.

 

[ynst]

Then you too had something wrong. If they all did that out of the box, they would no longer be in business.
What's unbelievable to me is that a shop did this, at least that's the way it sounds.

Actually, when I phoned them back in 1993 when I was having the problem they said that the engine rpms weren't sufficient to get the counterweights to begin forcing the plate tighter against the clutch and they recommended downshifting to get the revs up.

My fuel economy was bad enough as it was, never mind having to drive around in second and third gear just to stop the clutch from slipping.

High horsepower and an aluminum wheel doesn't work with a pressure plate designed for a cast iron anchor of a flywheel.

I pulled it out the next spring and never had the problem again. It's still sitting on the shelf in my garage, burned surface and all.

 

[Bird 426]

Surprised that they would say something like that! But I believe you. I've had no problems.

 

[padam]

Actually, when I phoned them back in 1993 when I was having the problem they said that the engine rpms weren't sufficient to get the counterweights to begin forcing the plate tighter against the clutch and they recommended downshifting to get the revs up.

My fuel economy was bad enough as it was, never mind having to drive around in second and third gear just to stop the clutch from slipping.

High horsepower and an aluminum wheel doesn't work with a pressure plate designed for a cast iron anchor of a flywheel.

I pulled it out the next spring and never had the problem again. It's still sitting on the shelf in my garage, burned surface and all.

Well I guess was wrong, the centerforce pressure plates must only be made for high winding 318’s.

 

[ynst]

Centerforce pressure plates are designed for easy engagement with minimal pedal effort.

I was told back in '93 that they were designed as racing pressure plates for guys that wanted to dump the clutch at relatively high rpm coming off the line. That's when the centrifugal force is throwing the rollers out against the tapered innards of the hat and applying additional pressure to the friction plate. These rollers were compensating for the relatively weak (when compared to coil springs) diaphragm spring.

Unfortunately, when coupled to a high torque hemi with an aluminum flywheel that allowed the engine to easily increase rotational speed without feeling the rotational resistance of a heavy iron flywheel, the 11 inch clutch would slip badly around 35 to 40 mph in high gear so it came out and was replaced with a 12 spring Borg & Beck 11 inch pressure plate that is still in the car.

The original aluminum flywheel's inlaid friction surface had been destroyed by the slipping clutch so everything was replaced after around 5000 miles when I switched back to the Borg & Beck pressure plate.

I will say this, however, and that is that the pedal pressure was substantially easier on my left leg when I was stuck in traffic when I had the diaphragm clutch in there. The ONLY thing that was salvageable was the throwout bearing but it was useless with the Borg & Beck pressure plate.

 

[padam]

Centerforce pressure plates are designed for easy engagement with minimal pedal effort.

I was told back in '93 that they were designed as racing pressure plates for guys that wanted to dump the clutch at relatively high rpm coming off the line. That's when the centrifugal force is throwing the rollers out against the tapered innards of the hat and applying additional pressure to the friction plate. These rollers were compensating for the relatively weak (when compared to coil springs) diaphragm spring.

Unfortunately, when coupled to a high torque hemi with an aluminum flywheel that allowed the engine to easily increase rotational speed without feeling the rotational resistance of a heavy iron flywheel, the 11 inch clutch would slip badly around 35 to 40 mph in high gear so it came out and was replaced with a 12 spring Borg & Beck 11 inch pressure plate that is still in the car.

The original aluminum flywheel's inlaid friction surface had been destroyed by the slipping clutch so everything was replaced after around 5000 miles when I switched back to the Borg & Beck pressure plate.

I will say this, however, and that is that the pedal pressure was substantially easier on my left leg when I was stuck in traffic when I had the diaphragm clutch in there. The ONLY thing that was salvageable was the throwout bearing but it was useless with the Borg & Beck pressure plate.

You’re mixing a few things up here;
Centrifugal assist Borg and Beck plates use rollers. Centerforce diaphragm plates have weights out on the fingers near the throw out bearing. I have heard claims that the Centerforce weights are mostly a gimmick, and don’t ad force under 6k rpm. I have no way of knowing if that is true.

At 25-30 miles per hour the flywheel weight should have little effect on clutch performance. Once the car is moving, a heavy flywheel just makes the car seem heavier.

If you’re blowing through the clutch it doesn’t have enough clamp load/friction capacity.

 

[Bird 426]

My Hemi had Centerforce steel flywheel, clutch disc and 11" pp. No issues, street car. I went auto, but not because of clutch issues.
Waiting on news from the OP.

 

[ynst]

You’re mixing a few things up here;
Centrifugal assist Borg and Beck plates use rollers. Centerforce diaphragm plates have weights out on the fingers near the throw out bearing. I have heard claims that the Centerforce weights are mostly a gimmick, and don’t ad force under 6k rpm. I have no way of knowing if that is true.

At 25-30 miles per hour the flywheel weight should have little effect on clutch performance. Once the car is moving, a heavy flywheel just makes the car seem heavier.

If you’re blowing through the clutch it doesn’t have enough clamp load/friction capacity.

The ONLY clutch I blew through was the Centerforce setup. I never pulled it apart to look inside. I just tossed it on the shelf and use it as a teaching aid on occasion.

"I have heard claims that the Centerforce weights are mostly a gimmick, and don’t ad force under 6k rpm. I have no way of knowing if that is true."
That's, basically, what the Centech guy told me forty-one years ago.

The engine revved so easily that the clutch was ALWAYS slipping under mild acceleration off barely an idle which is exactly what happens in heavy slow-moving traffic.

All three of my Volare wagons were 4 speed cars and my '34, my GTX and my '48 Chrysler 7-passenger sedan ALL have three pedals and I have yet to find the need to service the clutch assemblies. Hell, it's been years since I even had to adjust the free play in the linkage.

I suppose that's because I opt for the 12-spring variety truck clutches over the 9-spring sissy clutches.

Having an aluminum flywheel has it's advantages. It's really easy to accelerate up the long hill heading into the Cumberland Gap without having to overcome the "drag" exerted by a heavy iron flywheel when I pull out to pass a wimpy daily-driver struggling to maintain the speed limit going up that long grade. It's almost as good as passing gear in an automatic.

 

[padam]

The ONLY clutch I blew through was the Centerforce setup. I never pulled it apart to look inside. I just tossed it on the shelf and use it as a teaching aid on occasion.

"I have heard claims that the Centerforce weights are mostly a gimmick, and don’t ad force under 6k rpm. I have no way of knowing if that is true."
That's, basically, what the Centech guy told me forty-one years ago.

The engine revved so easily that the clutch was ALWAYS slipping under mild acceleration off barely an idle which is exactly what happens in heavy slow-moving traffic.

All three of my Volare wagons were 4 speed cars and my '34, my GTX and my '48 Chrysler 7-passenger sedan ALL have three pedals and I have yet to find the need to service the clutch assemblies. Hell, it's been years since I even had to adjust the free play in the linkage.

I suppose that's because I opt for the 12-spring variety truck clutches over the 9-spring sissy clutches.

Having an aluminum flywheel has it's advantages. It's really easy to accelerate up the long hill heading into the Cumberland Gap without having to overcome the "drag" exerted by a heavy iron flywheel when I pull out to pass a wimpy daily-driver struggling to maintain the speed limit going up that long grade. It's almost as good as passing gear in an automatic.

Ok, I defer to your greater experience.

 

[TallGuy71]

Alright yall! Little update here! Got the trans out today, took me a little longer than expected between family/holiday stuff. I had to cut the 3in H pipe exhaust to get the trans cross member out too. My TO bearing was 2.11 in long and the other one I have here at the house is 2.06, which doesn’t seem like enough to me to make a huge difference. Since I’ve never taken a clutch assembly apart before hopefully you guys can shed some light on some things for me. I was told that there was only about 300 miles on the car since the transmission was replaced. I can see where the fingers were wearing on the TO bearing. The clutch looks pretty rough to me but I have no experience. The flywheel is 1.27in thick. There are metal shavings all on the inner part of the flywheel as well. As one previous poster suggested I measured the input shaft bearing retainer and opening in the bell housing, they are the same size. I’m waiting to put everything back together until at least the 5th when I’ll be able to call Brewers and talk to them.

 

[davek]

Does your flywheel look burned? To me from the pic it will need to be turned. JMO

 

[TallGuy71]

Does your flywheel look burned? To me from the pic it will need to be turned. JMO

It definitely isn’t smooth. That’s a main question I have for Brewers. With that yellow paint mark I’m wondering if it’s original to the motor? Looks like an assembly line mark. There is a broken tooth as well.

 

[davek]

It definitely isn’t smooth. That’s a main question I have for Brewers. With that yellow paint mark I’m wondering if it’s original to the motor? Looks like an assembly line mark. There is a broken tooth as well.

It should be smooth and sounds like you will need a new one. If it was me I would go back to a stock setup. Thats just me. I never had problems with stock. I sometime abuse my 4 spds and never had problems. Sounds like someone did not know what they were doing installing the clutch,or going cheap with what they had laying around. JMO

 

[padam]

Flywheel should be 1.00” thick. Unless it’s something special for a six pack motor I don’t know about. That could be the problem. A steel flywheel is a good safety upgrade.

 

[AR67GTX]

1.25” thick does sound like a lot. I don’t think my OEM Hemi one is that thick but it’s not here to measure right now.