Tie Rod Clearance to Torsion Bar; Idler Arm Correct??

[Rockett]

1969 Road Runner....

My RH inner tie rod end has apparently been nicking my torsion bar with its grease fitting on top. Since removing the grease fitting, it *barely* clears the torsion bar now! LH tie rod clears the torsion bar fine, but I see that my center link is 2" higher end-to-end on the RH side, thus holding the RH tie rod too close to the torsion bar.

So the culprit seems to be the *idler arm* on the RH side (holding the center link 2" higher than the steering gear arm holds it on the LH side). Maybe the wrong idler arm installed?? The only way I could figure that out, would be to buy an idler arm & hold it up next to the one I've got installed.

*However*, in looking at the *bracket* that holds the idler arm to the K-member on the frame, ....mine sure looks "crude". I've attached a slew of photos (you guys like photos, right? Should this bracket of mine look better than it does? I'm hoping you guys tell me that they all look pretty crude.

(BTW - that's not a "crack" across my bracket, it's like a gouge in the metal there... the photos make it look worse than it is)

If anyone has a 69 Road Runner or Satellite (or other B-body, for that matter) ... Do my photos here look amiss? Would anyone be so kind as to upload photos of what this bracket looks like on their car?

Does the angular profile of this idler arm (below) look correct? Among the different B-body years, I believe there were a couple *different* idler arm part numbers. I'm guessing it wouldn't take much of an angular difference to result in the 2" height discrepancy I have end-to-end across my installed center link.

For that matter, can anyone tell me if their center link is the same height above the road on both ends? I measured at the lowest point on both sides, which is at the forward side of the link, since it tilts a bit towards the front.

As always, any & all comments, questions, suggestions, & photos are very much appreciated!!!

Rick

 

[Lefty71]

Sorry I cant help.... but this post looks like it's from John Madden.

 

[Rockett]

Sorry I cant help.... but this post looks like it's from John Madden.

Right! I know you guys don't need everything labelled like that, but I was trying to make the "orientation" easy for y'all. Sometimes it takes me several minutes to figure out some guy's photos on here. One can crawl under a car in all sorts of strange positions!

BTW - I'm now also seeing that there have been threads on this tie-rod clearance issue before, & I'm learning a lot by reading those much older threads. Perhaps members have come up with other solutions or parts vendors now (good & bad) ?

Still, also, I'm wondering if my idler arm bracket on the K-member looks worse than most??

 

[R/T Boy 67]

The welding on the arm looks factory fresh, to me. If every thing is right the center link would be the same height on both sides. Try pulling up and down on the center link where the idler is attached to check the arm bushing for slop. Make sure the idler bolt hole is not pounded out of round etc.

 

[Rockett]

The welding on the arm looks factory fresh, to me. If every thing is right the center link would be the same height on both sides. Try pulling up and down on the center link where the idler is attached to check the arm bushing for slop. Make sure the idler bolt hole is not pounded out of round etc.

Thanks. I had the center link off a couple of days ago to change the pan gasket. And everything seemed fine with the bushings & actual linkage. And this clearance issue has been with me since I bought the car only a couple of months ago.

"Factory fresh" .... the stuff looked that bad out of the factory, heh? All the odd cut angles & such ... looks like it was fabricated by eye with an acetylene torch as a high school shop project.

With the zerk fitting removed, I have decent clearance now, so perhaps these are aftermarket tie-rods? Altho, the center link should still be horizontal, right?

And since I have a gouge in my torsion bar, I'll likely replace them both & I'd like to go with heavier torsion bars to get rid of the "sailing ship" handling of these stock bars. So, once again then, clearance is an important issue.

I'm reading in another thread that the '73-'74 RoadRunner idler arms put the center link an inch lower. I might try that on my '69. Anyone have any experience trying that?

 

[Lefty71]

I cant tell from the pix, but someone might..... maybe the kframe is newer, making it the wrong idler arm?? What do the motor mounts look like?? Does this help? https://www.engine-swaps.com/Pages/ProductsType/K-Frames.html

 

[aeon280]

I have the same issue. I think it comes down to variances in aftermarket tie rod ends and idler arms. I've seen at least 1/2 dozen different rod ends and currently have three different idler arms in my collection, each one is slightly different and have a slightly different angle. I just pulled the zerk on the passenger inner rod end and put a screw with the same threads to keep dirt and water out. As little as I drive it I will only need to grease it once a year at most.

 

[Rockett]

I cant tell from the pix, but someone might..... maybe the kframe is newer, making it the wrong idler arm?? What do the motor mounts look like?? Does this help? https://www.engine-swaps.com/Pages/ProductsType/K-Frames.html

kind of looks like "crude fabrication & welding" was the norm.

 

[Rockett]

I have the same issue. I think it comes down to variances in aftermarket tie rod ends and idler arms. I've seen at least 1/2 dozen different rod ends and currently have three different idler arms in my collection, each one is slightly different and have a slightly different angle. I just pulled the zerk on the passenger inner rod end and put a screw with the same threads to keep dirt and water out. As little as I drive it I will only need to grease it once a year at most.

With the zerk fitting removed, I have decent clearance now but since I have a gouge in my torsion bar, I'll likely replace them both & I'd like to go with heavier torsion bars to get rid of the "sailing ship" handling of these stock bars.
So, if I want a larger diameter bar, once again clearance might be an issue.

 

[Lefty71]

To elaborate, a '69 car would normally have "biscuit" mounts, and 73up car would have "spool" mounts. I don't know if somebody could have changed to that newer style "spool" motor mount K frame, but it would explain the problem you are seeing, if the "correct" 69 idler arm is in place. They used a jig to weld these up, issues with factory parts on factory kframes are definitely not the norm. Have a peek at your motor mounts and let us know what you see.

 

[Rockett]

To elaborate, a '69 car would normally have "biscuit" mounts, and 73up car would have "spool" mounts. I don't know if somebody could have changed to that newer style "spool" motor mount K frame, but it would explain the problem you are seeing, if the "correct" 69 idler arm is in place. They used a jig to weld these up, issues with factory parts on factory kframes are definitely not the norm. Have a peek at your motor mounts and let us know what you see.

Well, here's the best I can do without jacking the car up again tonight.
Right side motor-mount (looking toward the front of the car).

 

[Lefty71]

Its the right K frame, so the problem lies elsewhere.

 

[Rockett]

Its the right K frame, so the problem lies elsewhere.

Glad to know that! Thanks!

 

[33 IMP]

My first thought was wrong idler arm, but i sure don't know enough to be sure. Lots of guys on here know more about this than me.

 

[PST]

Hopefully this will help you some. The one on the bottom is correct with for a 69 B Body (1968-72 B Body) The one on top is 73-74 B body idler arm.

Thanks
James From
PST

 

[Rockett]

Hopefully this will help you some. The one on the bottom is correct with for a 69 B Body (1968-72 B Body) The one on top is 73-74 B body idler arm.

Thanks
James From
PST

View attachment 809757

Wow, thanks for that photo!!

You're holding the one right on top of the other there? (hard to tell if they're right against each other)

So, ...if I need additional "drop" (clearance below the torsion bar), I guess what I've read it correct ... I can go to the '73-'74 idler arm on my '69 RoadRunner. Can you verify that this can be done, PST? And do you know what the additional drop would be? Both arms are the same length, overall?

Has anyone here used the later year idler arm on an older car with good results?? (a thumbs-up would be reassuring)

Why would we need to do this? The clearance from the factory might have been very close to begin with? Aftermarket tie-rods have bigger/taller ends? And, I guess, there's also the possibility that the bracket on the k-member was bumped sometime over the past 50 years.

Rick

 

[khryslerkid]

Found the same problem on the early B body. The aftermarket idler and tie rod pieces are heavier in design. The idler was found to be a little out of spec also. I ended up going with a NOS idler arm. I used the NAPA tie rod ends. They were made in china but weren't oversized like the Moogs were.

Good luck.

 

[PST]

Hello Rick,

To answer your question I was holding the one over the other with the portion that attaches to the k -member even. As to why you are having an issue it is hard to tell without being there in person. Had you just replaced this idler arm or is this something that had gone unnoticed till recently?

Thanks
James

 

[Rockett]

Hello Rick,

To answer your question I was holding the one over the other with the portion that attaches to the k -member even. As to why you are having an issue it is hard to tell without being there in person. Had you just replaced this idler arm or is this something that had gone unnoticed till recently?

Thanks
James

Recently purchased the car. It was restored in 2003. Quality job with good parts. But I noticed the nick in the torsion bar & it was the RH inner tie-rod end zerk fitting. I removed the fitting & now I have adequate clearance (0.15"), but I'd like to have a zerk fitting there (and I'm also considering a larger dia. torsion bar for a firmer ride).
On the LH side, the end of the center link is 6 3/8" above the road, .....& 8 3/8" on the RH side. No problem with oil pan clearance, but I'd like to get a little more clearance on the RH torsion bar.

 

[Lefty71]

He said he bought the car recently... im wondering if theres a possibility that the steering box or pitman arm are from a later model and that's what jacked it up like that since his kframe and idler seem to check out Ok???