To clone or not. That is the question.

[mopar 3 B]

So I should build a car the ignorant can safely ID? I build what I want. I don't market them as anything more or less than they are. It's someone else saying "it's a clone" because it has a hood with a scoop, or a stripe down the side, or a high impact color that hurts the market.

The reason things are expensive is lack of production (compared to Chevy and Ford). That's true for OEM, repro, and aftermarket performance stuff. If you have 10% of a million total units produced to recoup your production and distribution costs over, you can price it lower than 10% of 30K of total production. If you think Mopars are bad - try and build a Studebaker.

Considering Studebaker has been out of business since 1965 why would parts not be hard to find. Chrysler is still in business (will maybe). The scarcity of Chrysler parts was created by Chrysler's attempt to control the parts market and refusing to let the after market fill the void which is still the case on many items.
Also I an not objecting to the adding of inprovement but the changing of the name.
A Satellite is still a Satellite no matter what parts are put on it and will never be a RR or a GTX. That was a factory determination and legally documented.

 

[Malicious]

I honestly find this topic a bore but I am part of it whether I like it or not. I have a 440 Coronet - no Tags, no build sheet, nothing special that I can see other than it has been manual and raced at one point. So I built it how I wanted it. Black on black with the R/T / 500 tail lights & panel. Unfortunately you can't remove the badge on the tail panel, its either 500 or R/T, so I have RT. There are NO other badges on the car at this point, although I might add the pentastar back to the fender.

I get asked "is it a real R/T?" I tell them "No, I just built it how I wanted, with the RT tail lights cos their fkn cool". I could of got an actual R/T but then would I be comfortable modifying it? Hell no. It would be a cotton wool princess and I didn't want that.

I'm not sure why this needs to be a 'topic' at all to be honest. You either have a numbers car and your proud off it, or like me you have a Big Black "I think its an Old Charger" with a fkn noisy Big Block! Build it the way you want it, be honest about it and leave the judging to the judges.

My $0.02

 

[Rkoetting5]

In some ways, the freedom of having a Satellite or Coronet that was an original slant 6 or 318 car would be great. As an "all original, numbers matching" car, nobody really cares. So, you have the freedom to do whatever you like. Stuff a 528 crate Hemi in, go with a late model 5.7 driveline, or a 383 or 440. You are doing nothing but increasing the value to a down-the-line buyer. You can put tubs, Vintage Air, modern gauges, killer stereo, 4-link suspension, whatever you like and you have done nothing but save a MOPAR likely destined to become s piece of scrap steel.

On the other hand, if you have an original GTX, SuperBee, R/T, RoadRunner, or any Hemi car, you are an idiot if you do anything irreversible to the vehicle. Tubs, widening rear fender openings, fuel cells, anything cool just destroys the value of the car.

And so there is the rub. Cheap fun and do what you like, a "tribute worthy" or "clone worthy" car. Spend the money to buy an original "factory muscle car," and shame on you for any modification. I was originally looking for a factory muscle car, but all of the ones I looked at were $25K and way up from there. I started looking at Satellites and Coronets with 318's at $8-15K, then stumbled into my 67 R/T Coronet for $15k. It is kind of cool that at my price, I could get stupid and put headers, tubs, tunnel rams, and other stuff on, and still be "okay." Or I can go all original and be fine, or somewhere in between. Which is where I am at right now, just doing a tune-up, correcting oil leaks, and making future plans.

As a MOPAR guy since 1977, the year I bought and promptly butchered my first car, a 1965 Satellite 426 street wedge four-speed car, I think there is a place in the hobby for all cars, from concours level restorations, to the most outrageous customs or resto-mods imaginable.

 

[Pauls68]

Hey guys, going to throw my opinion in on this one.
I love american muscle, a good mate took me for a spin in his 69 camaro and I was hooked. I ended up buying and importing from the U.S. a 68 coronet (see my garage) that is an RT clone. why that car? well I wanted something other than the norm and this was straight up my alley I loved the shape, and I wanted something I can tinker with without ruining a perfect numbers matching RT. Another great mate of mine has a triple black 68 charger RT, numbers matching 440. Awesome car, loves the cruises, but he is super restricted in what he can and wants to touch and that seems sad to me, but I am sure his investment will make him just as happy as I. In the end you are either one or the other, but don't settle for what you are not.

 

[moparedtn]

Personally I'm not into clones. I have a Sport Satellite and it will always be a SS. Could be stock or modified depending on the owners preference. If you want a RR or GTX that bad then go for the money and buy one or restore one better yet. The price difference between a clone and original has to be substantial

 

[moparedtn]

Ok, right off the bat - yes, I'm a "purist" also.
The kick for me is in seeing cars as they were originally built, regardless of pedigree.
I love the historical aspect of most things in general and cars are no exception - I love the representation of how things were "back then".
Heck, my "minor" in college back in the early 80's was restorative architecture, so...

After owning a ton of "hundred buck GM's" in high school, a friend bought an original Challenger T/A (for $2300 using money he'd saved from years on his paper route - honest!).
I started attending shows and such with him and fell in love with b-body Mopars.
In fact, I've always owned Mopars in the 30+ years since, with the exception of a '89 5.0 Mustang I bought new because Mopar didn't have squat in those days.
(I always told folks the 5.0 was what Mopar should have been building back then, but I digress...).
Bottom line is I love to see original cars, be they slant 6 Belvederes, poly Darts or '38 Buicks - my heart will always belong to Mopar, but I love pretty much ALL American iron.

When it was time for me to get back into the hobby (once it was determined I was going to be above dirt for a little bit longer - cancer sucks!), I set out to find another Mopar b-body and yes, it HAD to be a real factory-built performance car.
My first love is a '68 Super Bee (I've owned several in the past), but as long as it was an authentic, original R/T or GTX or Road Runner or some such, that was acceptable.
I didn't pay much attention to clones, "tributes" (ugh - hate that moniker) or whatever - it HAD to be a real one. Numbers-matching didn't matter as long as the car was an authentic original "name" car - hence, my current '68 GTX. Yes, it's a real one. No, it ain't perfect.
That doesn't make mine any more significant than the original Satellite parked next to it at the next show - it just means it's what I wanted.
I couldn't see spending all that time (of which I have precious little of on this earth anymore) and money (medical bills take that in great big gulps) on replicating something into something it is not - but that's just me.
I won't further that end of the hobby - plenty of folks doing that already and yes, to me, that muddies the waters a bit.


There's nothing wrong with having a Satellite or a Coronet in any trim level just BE what they are. I love seeing any model lovingly taken care of!
They don't have to be a $60k restoration of a hemi car. They don't have to be dolled up into a false representation of what they never were.
Why can't owners enjoy and be proud of that Coronet 440 they've spent months working on and cleaning up? That Sport Satellite? That Belvedere II?
I'll spend 10 minutes ogling over an original Coronet or whatever that the owner has babied at a show; in contrast, I'll glance at a "badge engineered" clone and give it a cursory look, then move on.

Really, my question is:
Why do people feel the need to stick badges on "clones" if they're so "up front" about admitting their cars aren't what they're presented to be?
What's the real point of that?
Yeah, I know, we're getting into psychology and all that jazz...but if people are being really honest here, I think most of us already know why people do that, don't we?

 

[Malicious]

I hear what your getting at with the "Real Reason" line, but the reality is, some people are form over function, Show over go. And for our models, let be honest the difference between the lowest spec and the top spec is usually 2/10 of bugger all. Engine, some trim bits, maybe some springs/torsion bars. Almost all of which get changed over the year's anyway.

And when it comes to trim parts, try and find some one re-poping lower spec badges etc. Trust me I looked, there isn't many, if any.

To an extent, I agree with why bother cloning a higher spec? A lot of expense for, lets be honest, an inferior result over an updated / modded example. But then you could argue that for a high spec car as well. Why keep with the crappy skinny bias-plys, iron heads, manifolds etc?

Tell a purist that their R/T - GTX whatever is crap because it doesn't have lower profile grippy wheels & tyres, better performing engine products, etc. Its the same as telling a restomodder that his car is crap because it doesn't use period parts.

Horses for courses. This is only an issue because people want to make it an issue or lie. My only rule is be honest, past that, all bets are off. Build it how you want it.

 

[Hawg_man]

I'm 75 years old and am not numbers matching anymore and I'm missing some original parts and have had a few added so according to some.......I'm less valuable. I enjoy my "Clone" and don't try to fool anybody about my Car or Me. I'm posting some photo's so keep the comments civil....enjoy!

 

[dvw]

It all depends on the car. The people that have numbers matching cars with aftermarket metal, headers after mart parts that really aren't exact vs a clone that has all OE metal no replacement parts done to the 9s? I'd take the clone. Cracks me up someone pulls a junk rust bucket out of the junkyard Then proceeds to fill it full of AMD metal, mig welds the body togetjher, nom engine, and numerous repop parts and calls it "original". But the guy who takes a perfect original Belvedere and installs a Hemi with all nos parts is a fake. Really?
Doug

 

[mopar 3 B]

I'm 75 years old and am not numbers matching anymore and I'm missing some original parts and have had a few added so according to some.......I'm less valuable. I enjoy my "Clone" and don't try to fool anybody about my Car or Me. I'm posting some photo's so keep the comments civil....enjoy!

View attachment 383630 View attachment 383631 View attachment 383633 View attachment 383634 View attachment 383635

You have done nothing yet to make it a clone if it still carries the original name plate.

 

[beanhead]

Considering Studebaker has been out of business since 1965 why would parts not be hard to find. Chrysler is still in business (will maybe). The scarcity of Chrysler parts was created by Chrysler's attempt to control the parts market and refusing to let the after market fill the void which is still the case on many items.
Also I an not objecting to the adding of inprovement but the changing of the name.
A Satellite is still a Satellite no matter what parts are put on it and will never be a RR or a GTX. That was a factory determination and legally documented.

No, my satellite will never be a RR or GTX but its all I could find and/or afford...try finding a 'real' anything with a good body that runs and drives fine for under 3000...I also feel better modifying the crap out of it. I grew up with bugs & the duke boys, roadrunner badging will be added because I've always loved it. I just like the trim, not gonna be sitting it at shows trying to pass it off as real or sell it as such. And when the light turns green...who cares!

 

[Cornpatch MO]

View attachment 363174

View attachment 363174

What is the name brand and color of blue is this? It is not B5 is it? I had a new 68 Roadrunner ordered that was similar blue with black vinyl top. I am doing a 68 Sattelite that will be a RR clone..Thanks..............MO

 

[moparwacko]

What is the name brand and color of blue is this? It is not B5 is it? I had a new 68 Roadrunner ordered that was similar blue with black vinyl top. I am doing a 68 Sattelite that will be a RR clone..Thanks..............MO

Yes it's B5. It's been painted over 20 yrs ago, but I can find the codes if need be. It looks brighter outside than in garage.

 

[Bruzilla]

I'm old enough to remember when there was no such thing as a clone. You bought a whatever, and did what you wanted to make it a car you liked. How many 73/74 Satellite projects do we see coming up for sale each year that have a Roadrunner hood that's been on there since the 1980s? I see a lot of them every year. The subject of cloning didn't come up until values started going up, so it was really all about people wanting to get their money's worth and not anything about the driving experience.

As long as you're not trying to misrepresent the car for the purposes of making a sale, so whatever you like to it.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

Yes it's B5. It's been painted over 20 yrs ago, but I can find the codes if need be. It looks brighter outside than in garage.View attachment 386201

No need to look up the code. after 20 years, it is probably been changed. Thanks ! ......MO