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Tuning issue 440

Kowal

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Charlotte, NC
I have a GTX that I picked up a few months ago, been working on it since. The problem is that it sometimes "runs on" when I shut it down, seems to do it after idling a bit such as running in the drive before I open the garage and pull it in. 69, 440, 4-speed.

The 440 build is uncertain, as the motor was done before I got it several owners ago. It is running an Edelbrock 800 AVS, Mopar Electronic Ignition. Cam seems stronger than stock but not by a lot. Carb and distributor are new. I have been through the carb twice to double-check floats, etc. Idle jets are stock. I am pretty sure of no vacuum leaks, I have checked it very thoroughly and am using a good carb gasket. Distributor is a stock style advance curve from Bouchillon Racing. Timing is 12 BTDC initial, 32 full in. Vacuum advance is not increasing timing at idle, only adds about 6 when called upon. Idle vacuum is 14 hg and reasonably steady. I use a vacuum gage to set idle, I think I have it set pretty well in that it borders on rich smell at the tail pipes (though maybe a "run on" condition is too lean?). Idle set at 830 rpm. Plugs are stock J11Y's. I have thought of going to J10Y's to see what happens. Pump gas.

The car runs very well. No hesitation, very responsive. I did play with more timing but at around 16 BTDC on idle I started hearing spark knock, and much more timing when driving made it too "jumpy', probably boarding on detonation. I did check TDC and it is OK. No idea of how the cam is degreed. Temp gage is stock dash unit, runs at the 1/3rd mark pretty consistently.

Long story. Any ideas? Cooler plug with today's pump gas? Still too lean at idle? Though it runs cool, it does seem to have a lot of engine compartment heat, more than I think is normal. Stock exhaust manifolds.
 
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Pics for those curious. A4 interior which is pretty cool.

IMG_3989.JPG IMG_1459.JPG
 
Idle sounds too high & does it have the elec. idle solenoid in it? Thought 4-spds had that solenoid to hold idle speed, then when key off the idle went even lower to stop run-on.
 
I have a GTX that I picked up a few months ago, been working on it since. The problem is that it sometimes "runs on" when I shut it down, seems to do it after idling a bit such as running in the drive before I open the garage and pull it in. 69, 440, 4-speed.

The 440 build is uncertain, as the motor was done before I got it several owners ago. It is running an Edelbrock 800 AVS, Mopar Electronic Ignition. Cam seems stronger than stock but not by a lot. Carb and distributor are new. I have been through the carb twice to double-check floats, etc. Idle jets are stock. I am pretty sure of no vacuum leaks, I have checked it very thoroughly and am using a good carb gasket. Distributor is a stock style advance curve from Bouchillon Racing. Timing is 12 BTDC initial, 32 full in. Vacuum advance is not increasing timing at idle, only adds about 6 when called upon. Idle vacuum is 14 hg and reasonably steady. I use a vacuum gage to set idle, I think I have it set pretty well in that it borders on rich smell at the tail pipes (though maybe a "run on" condition is too lean?). Idle set at 830 rpm. Plugs are stock J11Y's. I have thought of going to J10Y's to see what happens. Pump gas.

The car runs very well. No hesitation, very responsive. I did play with more timing but at around 16 BTDC on idle I started hearing spark knock, and much more timing when driving made it too "jumpy', probably boarding on detonation. I did check TDC and it is OK. No idea of how the cam is degreed. Temp gage is stock dash unit, runs at the 1/3rd mark pretty consistently.

Long story. Any ideas? Cooler plug with today's pump gas? Still too lean at idle? Though it runs cool, it does seem to have a lot of engine compartment heat, more than I think is normal. Stock exhaust manifolds.
It may well be the fuel your using. Lower octane will cause dieseling as will excessive heat. Best to check the engine temperature more closely as 1/3 dial seem awfully low. You could try 10 degrees BTDC based on the fuels octane or go to the max in octane without "corn pone" in it. Shell's top gas is clear of methanol. I had a similar occurance from what I like to call watered down gas.
 
Nice looking car. High idle speed is a likely cause of run on. With a modified, cammed motor and a stock carb you can get run on because the primary blades are open too much at idle trying to make it run - but it doesn't sound like your motor falls in that category. An idle compensator is another solution and one can be fitted to an Edelbrock - I have one on my GTX to compensate for the load of the AC.
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They work very well. They will not move the throttle upon activation under their own power - once the throttle is opened they will extend and hold that idle position. No big deal as it's pretty normal to massage the throttle a bit on first start up to clear the engine and keep it running.

I have an 800 Edelbrock on my car and I think they are considered to be a rich running carb. I did rebuild mine finally and found wrong jets in it (bought it used) and after careful adjustments of everything it finally runs strong - but still a bit rich at idle. With 14 Hg inches of vacuum I would say you do have a bit more cam than factory. I think my stock cam runs more around 17. My car pings pretty good on stock 93 fuel with a total of 36 degrees timing so I've recently cut it back to 34 degrees and still experimenting with that. If yours runs strong with 32 then I wouldn't change that much.
 
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All good points! Looking at the plugs, they look good but a little on the whiter side than tan. So I think I will try J10Y's just to see what happens. I will also lower the idle a bit. Maybe tweak it a little richer, but it really does run good now. Yes, the cam is stout, not a big lopey style cam, but there is absolutely a lot there. Whatever it is, it is older, not a roller.

The solenoid is a pretty good idea in the end if I am still seeing the problem. Per the first post, the 440-4 didn't have a solenoid like the 440-6 did. However, due to the 440-6, there is a great little one wire, stock Mopar, special harness that I have in my stash from past 69.5 440-6 cars that comes off the Ballast and goes right to the solenoid. So it would be easy to set up.
 
Following up. Good day. Lowering the idle, resetting the mixture, seemed to help and settle things down. ditto the colder plugs which seemed to take it off the "edge" of detonation that I felt I was on.
 
I would be real interested in what the J-10's look like after awhile; if they're not showing signs of being too cold, maybe the rest of us have more things to think about w/crappy gas than we think. That's a pretty cold plug.
 
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