Viper T56 install

[Bigcountry]

Hello 747, thank you for this very useful post. I want to put the same setup in my 69 Coronet and will watch your progress with much interest. Do you plan on using the Viper shifter and stick or something else?

 

[HYRDGOON]

Looks like the weekends here! Wish you luck everything goes as planned this weekend Devin!

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Hello 747, thank you for this very useful post. I want to put the same setup in my 69 Coronet and will watch your progress with much interest. Do you plan on using the Viper shifter and stick or something else?

Not to speak for 747 but knowing him I believe he plans to fabricate something himself that will have a pistol grip. I'll either find a pistol grip that will work or modify one so the layback doesn't interfere with my bench.

I did find another thread doing some research where a guy is using a Pro 5.0 shifter mechanism for an '03-'04 Cobra. The assembly bolts right in place of where the Viper mechanism did and his pistol grip bolts right to it.

 

[Bigcountry]

Thank ya Goon. I too want to use a pistol grip or a factory looking ball. Was wondering because I am using a bench also.

 

[747mopar]

Oh ok, that's a good idea for making that adjustable, I just wasn't/still not sure how compatible the oem clutch pedal was with the hydraulic MC. Does the pedal bolt right up to the pushrod no problem? Sorry for the noob questions just trying to clear myself up lol

Now come on Speedy.........."not sure how compatible the oem clutch pedal was with the hydraulic MC" YOUR A MACHINIST FOR CRYING OUT LOUD haha. Scroll up a few post and look at Wookies pedal setup and you'll see how he has his MC attached to the OEM pedal. If going directly threw the center of the clutch linkage hole it is a little offset but a small spacer will remedy that. As far as where to put the bolt hole for the linkage goes, the factory location is close but you can just play with it until your happy.

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Looks like the weekends here! Wish you luck everything goes as planned this weekend Devin!

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Not to speak for 747 but knowing him I believe he plans to fabricate something himself that will have a pistol grip. I'll either find a pistol grip that will work or modify one so the layback doesn't interfere with my bench.

I did find another thread doing some research where a guy is using a Pro 5.0 shifter mechanism for an '03-'04 Cobra. The assembly bolts right in place of where the Viper mechanism did and his pistol grip bolts right to it.

I think Goon knows me a little to well haha. The only thing I have to add to that is that I'll be making a handle to put it right back where my auto stick was in my console but Goon might be doing something like your needing.

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Thank ya Goon. I too want to use a pistol grip or a factory looking ball. Was wondering because I am using a bench also.

Now that I think of it I ran into a guy near me at a car show that had a 69 Charger with a T56 bench seat and he had a very factory like looking shifter. He might have used the forward shifter location to accomplish that? His was a new T56 so I don't know if you can simply move the shifters on the Viper trans or not, I suppose a quick peak inside would tell.

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Hey MrSpeedfreak keep on asking, your just taking the questions right out of my head. I'm paying close attention too. Thanks everyone for doing the trailblazing for us!

BTW...does anyone want to buy a 727 with 69,000 miles on it? lol.

I wish I was trail blazing but it's been done before just doing a refresher haha (on the cheap).

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Hey Speedy - I've got some of the "trail-blazing" documented on my build thread, but I'm not as far along to have to "get-er-done" right now. It looked to me like I needed to relocate the hydraulic master a little further to the left then where I originally set it up for my 5-speed. But now that I'm changing over to the Challenger tr-6060 6-speed, I'm considering swapping over to the same master that the Challenger used so it'll mate up nicely with the hydraulic slave cylinder that I've go inside my transmission . . . that seems to be the best option ( in my opinion ).

now, "where" it will need to be mounted on the pedal is still an unknown, as I was also thinking about how the travel would have to match - but, once again, I'm not there yet ! ! But, I'm sure that it can be moved up or down to get the travel to match the master, be smooth, and not require one to be a weight lifter to depress the clutch ! !

I'm thinking of starting another thread for my tr-6060 install, so as not to interfere with 747 Mopar and Goon on their modifications . . . but I'm following this, for sure !

Interfere?................Never!

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Lol! Hey hey hey, I never said I lacked the skills to make it work. But in defense of my stupid question, I've never installed a 4 speed mopar pedal setup to know what the linkage looks like compared to the Wilwood pushrod. Although I shoulda noticed Wookie's was an oem pedal. Ah well :head_smack:

Think I'm gonna get the cheaper Wilwood pedal setup just to screw with ya now haha!

 

[747mopar]

Lol! Hey hey hey, I never said I lacked the skills to make it work. But in defense of my stupid question, I've never installed a 4 speed mopar pedal setup to know what the linkage looks like compared to the Wilwood pushrod. Although I shoulda noticed Wookie's was an oem pedal. Ah well :head_smack:

Think I'm gonna get the cheaper Wilwood pedal setup just to screw with ya now haha!

USA is plenty happy with his so I'm sure they're pretty nice.

 

[747mopar]

First night of the install didn't go quite as planned but I got a good feel for what was going to be needed. Had a buddy show up and my brother bought a bow so there was some target practicing and hanging out. First off 6speedgtx was correct, there is know way in hell this tranny is going in without removing at least some of the pinch weld. Second you cannot even bolt this tranny to the motor even with it hanging down without first removing the center of the cross member (this is one fat SOB). And 3rd trimming some of the odd tabs sticking out really cut down on the amount of floor needing to be removed. All in all it looks like it's going to fit pretty well.

I first removed the shifter because you know it's going to be the first thing to hit, you can see what they mean by a single rail shifter (1 rail). Then off with the skip shift solenoid since it was sticking out so much. Another important thing was to back the torsion bars all the way off, I was going to make a temporary brace but there was no room with how far down and back the tranny was starting out. I instead backed the torsion bars off then checked the cross member with a straight edge recording it's shape and position (it didn't budge when I cut the center out).



Here's the chunk I chopped out, this is roughly how much needs to come out for it to even go in.



These are the tabs that were hitting.




After some trimming.









I'll get it in there tomorrow afternoon.

 

[747mopar]

Here's a couple pics for you Speedy, these are OEM pedals with an OEM clutch pedal added to the automatic setup. I chose to weld an L shaped ear on mine to get the oddest and make bolting it up a little easier.





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In the pic the linkage isn't bolted on (just loosely put together). I'm hoping that USA will post a pic of his setup here for those thinking about that direction.

 

[Wookie316]

I had to shave both the head of the bolt through the brake pedal and the head of the bolt on the clutch rod that attaches to the pedal so they would clear each other.
Mine is unique to this though because the original pedals were butchered when the manual conversion was put in. I have since repaired all of this as best as I can but I had to think outside the box on a couple things.

 

[747mopar]

I had to shave both the head of the bolt through the brake pedal and the head of the bolt on the clutch rod that attaches to the pedal so they would clear each other.
Mine is unique to this though because the original pedals were butchered when the manual conversion was put in. I have since repaired all of this as best as I can but I had to think outside the box on a couple things.

It's pretty tight quarters in there.

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Wow, diving right in man! A lot of good info there and thanks for the pics of the pedal setup, either way I end up going, I'm not too worried at all now, seems either one should work well assuming USA is liking his setup. Got paid yesterday, hopefully selling some parts today, and I'm officially saving up for my T56 haha :waiting:

Really liking this thread and all I've been learning here lately too, great idea and thanks again

 

[747mopar]

Wow, diving right in man! A lot of good info there and thanks for the pics of the pedal setup, either way I end up going, I'm not too worried at all now, seems either one should work well assuming USA is liking his setup. Got paid yesterday, hopefully selling some parts today, and I'm officially saving up for my T56 haha :waiting:

Really liking this thread and all I've been learning here lately too, great idea and thanks again

I'm just glad we have a few guys on here that have done these swaps to chime in. Once I get to the pedal-MC setup I'll post everything about it as well so by the end you can either say "hell yeah" or "there ain't know way in hell I'm doing that" haha! I promise as long as something doesn't go wrong between now and tonight it will be in there tonight with pics posted.

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A big Thanks to Kahn for helping out with..............well educating me on how to edit pics.

 

[carnalsupply]

Hey Dev,

Sorry for the delay in posting/asking this; it relates to stuff from the first page.

Just a thought; when I installed a Lakewood scatter shield (on my Vette) the flange area around the perimeter was fairly tight and socket head bolts, having a smaller head diameter, made it easier to get the bolts in and secured. I've never used a Quick Time (heard their awesome quality) so I can't say "fer sur" but maybe the situation is the same?

As for the "spacer" with a lip you're talking about fabbing up; maybe I'm missing something in the pictures you posted but I'm not getting it, so can you explain in a bit more detail why you need a spacer?

Just as a side note to all you guys talking about pedals: I received my Wilwood setup (Throttle/Brake/Clutch - floor mount) and the quality is f'n superb, so if you're looking for a set of hanging/swinging pedals I wouldn't be afraid of going with Wilwood. Believe it or not I got mine on Amazon for a real aggressive price and $0 freight.

Thanks,

Bob

 

[747mopar]

Hey Dev,

Sorry for the delay in posting/asking this; it relates to stuff from the first page.

Just a thought; when I installed a Lakewood scatter shield (on my Vette) the flange area around the perimeter was fairly tight and socket head bolts, having a smaller head diameter, made it easier to get the bolts in and secured. I've never used a Quick Time (heard their awesome quality) so I can't say "fer sur" but maybe the situation is the same?

As for the "spacer" with a lip you're talking about fabbing up; maybe I'm missing something in the pictures you posted but I'm not getting it, so can you explain in a bit more detail why you need a spacer?

Just as a side note to all you guys talking about pedals: I received my Wilwood setup (Throttle/Brake/Clutch - floor mount) and the quality is f'n superb, so if you're looking for a set of hanging/swinging pedals I wouldn't be afraid of going with Wilwood. Believe it or not I got mine on Amazon for a real aggressive price and $0 freight.

Thanks,

Bob

Feel free to post pics of your pedal setup. As for the spacer I guess I should have waited to be sure it would even need one before saying anything. What I am referring to is getting the stroke for the internal hyd set right, when adapting a tranny that isn't made for the application you have to make sure all the tolerances are inline. The bell housing can only put the input shaft where it needs to be in the pilot bearing leaving the internal hyd wherever it falls. The instructions in the Keisler kit called for 1/4" - 1/2" clearance between the throw out (internal hyd) and pressure plate fingers to prevent overstroking it or having pressure applied while at rest. So to answer your question, if it's within the specs (I'll check with McLeod and others for the specs) then there will be no spacer but if it's say an 1" away from engaging than a 1/2"-3/4" spacer will be needed (going by Keislers specs) to move it out closing the gap up. Hope that explained it but if not I'll get to that within a week or 2.

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Your right about the Quicktime brand, really nice looking pieces. The socket head bolts to me are just a bad idea on things that need to be tight or in areas that require universal joints to get to. They take deeper tools to get a hold of and if you can't get a socket on them your stuck with an allen wrench, I guess I just find the traditional hex head has more flexibility as far as tools and tight spots. P.S the bell housing seams to have plenty of clearance for whatever I put in it.

 

[carnalsupply]

Feel free to post pics of your pedal setup. As for the spacer I guess I should have waited to be sure it would even need one before saying anything. What I am referring to is getting the stroke for the internal hyd set right, when adapting a tranny that isn't made for the application you have to make sure all the tolerances are inline. The bell housing can only put the input shaft where it needs to be in the pilot bearing leaving the internal hyd wherever it falls. The instructions in the Keisler kit called for 1/4" - 1/2" clearance between the throw out (internal hyd) and pressure plate fingers to prevent overstroking it or having pressure applied while at rest. So to answer your question, if it's within the specs (I'll check with McLeod and others for the specs) then there will be no spacer but if it's say an 1" away from engaging than a 1/2"-3/4" spacer will be needed (going by Keislers specs) to move it out closing the gap up. Hope that explained it but if not I'll get to that within a week or 2.

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Your right about the Quicktime brand, really nice looking pieces. The socket head bolts to me are just a bad idea on things that need to be tight or in areas that require universal joints to get to. They take deeper tools to get a hold of and if you can't get a socket on them your stuck with an allen wrench, I guess I just find the traditional hex head has more flexibility as far as tools and tight spots. P.S the bell housing seams to have plenty of clearance for whatever I put in it.

I'm heading to the shop right now and hopefully will have the pedals in place in a couple hours; I'll make sure to post shots when I'm done.

Having used a hydraulic TOB on my Vette I'm totally familiar with the spacing you're talking about; I just didn't realize that's what you were talking about in the initial post. I'm really pretty but not very smart!

I totally agree on the socket head bolts; they look bitchin' when you use them throughout but they are a royal pain to work with, especially in the instances you mentioned.

Have a great weekend and as always, THANKS for all the help and input!

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Looking forward to seeing your setup Bob, was half considering the floor mount setup as well. Looks b!tchin and I'm sure Goon would agree "fer racin" approved haha

 

[HYRDGOON]

Fer Racin' approved is right! This thread makes me Sticky!!! I MEAN!! this thread should be a sticky! bahahah!!

I can't thank Devin enough for all his help getting all my pieces together and fabricating the extras as he goes but Damn knowledge is the true gift here in seeing all this come together and getting all these great questions answered in one spot. This thread will prove invaluable when all my stuff is back here and ready to go in!


On the subject of shifter handles I've been scouring online to see who offers the nostalgic style wood grain pistol grip with the compatible 6 speed top plate and the options seem limited (and/or VERY expensive) Not something I need to move on now but like doing my homework in advance so if anyone has info or options to post I'd love to see them. I know Moparstuart has one that looks like what they offer for the new Challengers

and here's a link to the Pro 5.0. shifter mechanism that appears a factory Mopar handle would bolt up to is anyone is interested http://dagostinoracing.com/pro-50-03-04-cobra-t56-short-throw-shifter

 

[Ghostrider 67]

Ha,ha, i'm confused now.lol. The Wilwood pedals I saw at the link in this thread seemed to be for racing applications. It also looked like the brake and clutch fluid reservoirs were inside the cab and not in the engine bay. Does that work on our old cars? Is there room under there to do that? Cause if so I would like it to not have the MC hanging off the firewall. Do they work on street applications?

 

[HYRDGOON]

Ha,ha, i'm confused now.lol. The Wilwood pedals I saw at the link in this thread seemed to be for racing applications. It also looked like the brake and clutch fluid reservoirs were inside the cab and not in the engine bay. Does that work on our old cars? Is there room under there to do that? Cause if so I would like it to not have the MC hanging off the firewall. Do they work on street applications?

"For Racing" applications... what's that??? OHHHHHH.... You mean.... FER RACIN' !!! What is it you think we're doing here!?!?! lol

If you look at the first page where 747 shows the mounts I believe it's explained they sandwich the firewall to mount the MC...

 

[6speedGTX]

That's looking really good! It's hard to believe how fat those T-56 transmissions are until you get them up and into place, looks like you trimmed off the same tabs as I did. Thanks to everyone for the input on the pedal set up, I haven't gotten that far yet but I know it will be good info to have on hand.