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Where is my 67 440hp from?

It could have been a 67 TNT motor in a Full size I'd imagine but I don't have any first hand experience with TNT motors.
 
The early blocks seem a bit harder. Although they lack the strengthening ribs on the side. I think what's more important to look at is core shift and having it properly squared up and machined. Rods are ly's and nothing special. I'd rather have ly's out of a new yourker than a gtx because they haven't seen high rpm. They all need good bolts installed. Steel crank, that's good. Pistons are down in the hole and nothing special. Heads are somewhat desirable, for street use they will need hardened exhaust seats installed plus whatever else. You will have a set of source heads bought pretty quick if they need more than a valve job and seats. I wouldnt put a thumper cam in anything, but that's just me.. six pack sounds good!
 
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It could have been a 67 TNT motor in a Full size I'd imagine but I don't have any first hand experience with TNT motors.
Chrysler offer the HP in The full size line as well. Very few were made,as I tried to find out from Chrysler ten years ago regarding one I have. They said the number was so few they could not tell me even approximately. The non A/C and manual steering surprised them.
I have had this one since 1996:
CE23L77xxxxxx for Economy model
two door hardtop
440 TNT Engine
2801541 HD transmission(440 HP)
Manual steering
Non A/C
Painted top.
JB2 color Gold/Black top
fast top flow thru ventilation.
AM Radio
Power disc Brakes
15x6 steel wheels


And best of all, CHERRY BOMBS!!! ($7.95 each in 1968) Boy does the engine rumble when it starts!
 
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I'd have to challenge that and certainly it would not bode well for resale.

What you have read is one thing but I can tell you that I have been infactuated with the 67 440 and hemi cars for 30 years I have yet to even see one that is original that isn't stamped hp.
Im not saying your wrong. When my dad bought his new it did not have a HP stamped on it plus the auto 67 he bought is all original.
 
neither is stamped? I would match up the date stamped on the block to your fender tag. see how close they are to each other. The closer they are, (and of course the engine date has to be prior to the SON date) the more likely it is original, but subjected to some snafu.
On a few I have had real trouble locating the stamp as well. I found one really close to the valley pan bracket one time, and was not easy to see. So, Not all stamps were created equal!
 
my 68 GTX.... bought it in 85, EVERYTHING appeared to be untouched, always assumed it to be #'s matching but did not know the "ins and outs" of Mopars at the time. pad was D440.......it was some years later when I found out it should be stamped HP with a date prior to 10/24..... intake and other things were all date correct, I think the heads were also date correct?..... anyway the block was simply stamped D440 with a May (5 ??) assembly date and no partial VIN on the top/rear area.
I was disappointed when I found out.
early warranty short or long block?
 
my 68 GTX.... bought it in 85, EVERYTHING appeared to be untouched, always assumed it to be #'s matching but did not know the "ins and outs" of Mopars at the time. pad was D440.......it was some years later when I found out it should be stamped HP with a date prior to 10/24..... intake and other things were all date correct, I think the heads were also date correct?..... anyway the block was simply stamped D440 with a May (5 ??) assembly date and no partial VIN on the top/rear area.
I was disappointed when I found out.
early warranty short or long block?
Yup,it does happen. Could be a warranty issue, or blown engine early in life, which happened a lot. Even getting the car in 85' had 17 years of who knows what going on. it is still a GTX, and that value is substancial.
A good example of what can and did happen: A Good friend (17 years old)purchased A brand new shiney red 69' Roadrunner 383 four speed. Spring of 1969. Daddy bought it for him. he picked the car up, drove home 12 miles. He complained about a funny noise all the way home. it turned out the service guy checking out the car didn't verify the oil level. almost none! New warranty engine Installed on day three to a new Road runner. No more matching numbers after three days.
 
Chrysler offer the HP in The full size line as well. Very few were made,as I tried to find out from Chrysler ten years ago regarding one I have. They said the number was so few they could not tell me even approximately. The non A/C and manual steering surprised them.
I have had this one since 1996:
CE23L77xxxxxx for Economy model
two door hardtop
440 TNT Engine
2801541 HD transmission(440 HP)
Manual steering
Non A/C
Painted top.
JB2 color Gold/Black top
fast top flow thru ventilation.
AM Radio
Power disc Brakes
15x6 steel wheels


And best of all, CHERRY BOMBS!!! ($7.95 each in 1968) Boy does the engine rumble when it starts!

This is an anomaly as well because most TNT cars are k vin code not L
 
With all due respect to 69coronetrt, and you are very well schooled in Mopars, but if a I came across a 70' satellite that had a 78 cast crank engine dated 1978 in it I would look at it like a 36' ford with a Chevy 350 in it. it doesn't belong there, and I would walk away from it. Cast crank motors don't belong in older cars. But I'm old, and old guys have the Money. another minute example is I don't tolerate rally wheels on pre 70 A body cars. they look funny, and don't belong there. In the end, If I were purchasing a 71 or older Mopar, it would have to have an engine in it resembling the time. a 340 cast crank 73' engine for example would never find it's way into a 68-71 A body car of mine. and, There are lots of guys out there like me, and we tend to pay for originality.

Hey, we aren't dead yet! HAHAHA

Thanks for the kind words but
you are far more versed in these things than me, but how many performance C bodies were built? any? a few?........ I guess I was just supporting the claim it was from a GTX

BTW, I always read your posts in these matters.... thanks

1. I'd love to see production figures on 67 C bodies. To my knowledge, they have not been published. If they have been, I'd appreciate someone letting me know.

2. The point is they were available. If I have one for sale, and without a VIN to prove it, wouldn't it be sexier for me to say it was out of a GTX, even if the internals are exactly the same?

3. All we've seen is the pad. Are the original exhaust manifolds still on the block? Carb? Distributor? That would help clarify the actual application.

4. I'm a numbers geek but to get hung up on whether a block that you, should, rebuild anyway, or plan on upgrading, to go into an application that never had a 440 to begin with came from a 67 GTX or a 78 Chrysler is, IMHO, folly. At that point, the origin of the block is irrelevant. Wouldn't you care more about starting with a solid, unmolested core than what it first went into? It's origins make no difference when you are done and your foot is on the floor. A rebuilt block from GTX doesn't add any HP because it came from a GTX. You've changed or upgraded the internals. The HP stamp means nothing.

5. Forged vs cast crank. For what 95% or more of hobbyists do with their car (<600 horse, shows, cruises, taking the kids to the DQ on Saturday night, no 6,000 RPM neutral drops) cast vs forged is also, IMHO, irrelevant. If you are worried about a 78 Chrysler cast crank assembly in a 70 Satellite, then you are more OCD than I am. I already know it's not a factory application so I don't care. I'm pleased the guy did the upgrade regardless of what he used.
 
The K is for the single exhaust 350 Horse engine, and L was for the 375 HP engine, the same as B bodies. The TNT had the same chrome valve covers, double snorkel air cleaner, double row chain,windage tray, cam, and HP manifolds(slightly different to clear the steering column) as the B body cars.
The other Interesting tidbit is the 67' 440 had two 915 heads. One (TNT)with the large exhaust valve, and the other for the standard 440. But, I have heads from both, and the standard smaller valve head also has a K stamped in the head(for 1967 single exhaust), and the larger valve head has an L stamped in the head. This is only on the 1967 915 heads.
Here are pictures below:

7 july 2016 915 Mopar 440 head numbers 005.JPG 7 july 2016 915 Mopar 440 head numbers 006 (1).JPG 7 july 2016 915 Mopar 440 head numbers 007.JPG
 
Thanks for the kind words but


1. I'd love to see production figures on 67 C bodies. To my knowledge, they have not been published. If they have been, I'd appreciate someone letting me know.

2. The point is they were available. If I have one for sale, and without a VIN to prove it, wouldn't it be sexier for me to say it was out of a GTX, even if the internals are exactly the same?

3. All we've seen is the pad. Are the original exhaust manifolds still on the block? Carb? Distributor? That would help clarify the actual application.

4. I'm a numbers geek but to get hung up on whether a block that you, should, rebuild anyway, or plan on upgrading, to go into an application that never had a 440 to begin with came from a 67 GTX or a 78 Chrysler is, IMHO, folly. At that point, the origin of the block is irrelevant. Wouldn't you care more about starting with a solid, unmolested core than what it first went into? It's origins make no difference when you are done and your foot is on the floor. A rebuilt block from GTX doesn't add any HP because it came from a GTX. You've changed or upgraded the internals. The HP stamp means nothing.

5. Forged vs cast crank. For what 95% or more of hobbyists do with their car (<600 horse, shows, cruises, taking the kids to the DQ on Saturday night, no 6,000 RPM neutral drops) cast vs forged is also, IMHO, irrelevant. If you are worried about a 78 Chrysler cast crank assembly in a 70 Satellite, then you are more OCD than I am. I already know it's not a factory application so I don't care. I'm pleased the guy did the upgrade regardless of what he used.
I hope to politely disagree. you can't mistake a cast crank engine for the correct era engine. There are many of us that don't consider it correct. I go to a lot of shows, and even many chevy guys grimace when they see a nice original 56' or 57 with an Incorrect engine. And the guys with the ability to purchase these cars,and there are a bunch, I can say would prefer to have a period correct engine. The first thing I do when I come across one that has a newer engine is sell the newer engine to whoever, and put in the correct one. This is Just me, and it has nothing to do with the quality of the newer engine. for the same reason I don't put aftermarket wheels or rallyes on a 68' charger. In the end everyone is free to do whatever they wish, but don't discount a huge part of the hobby that wants that car the way it was made the day it was built.
And we will pay extra for it.
all one has to do is put the two up for sale: 67 440, or 78 440. which sells for more? and faster? I'm lucky to get $200 bucks out of a cast crank 440 engine.
 
It seems this TNT topic came up elsewhere, years ago too. Interesting reads, (not 100% factual.)

https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/66-440-tnt.9442/

http://www.stationwagonforums.com/f...-70-chrysler-t-c-what-do-i-really-have.12991/

Engine chart.

http://www.lhmopars.com/engines.htm

I think I've only see one TNT engine years ago and had forgotten about such a thing until it was brought up again.

It was a way for Chrysler to have a "Special Lable" on a 375 hp 440 engine. All about selling cars...
 
The only reason i cared was really just to know. Is the casting different..not really is the crank possibly rods pistons and heads different...i feel yes. Is it a "correct" car no. But a fun period correct modification yeah...im not looking to go Barrett jackson with this. Local shows and trips out with the kids for fun. Resurrecting one of these is work enough. Being exact....unless your pockets go deeper than mine i just can't afford that. But tge fact my motor came from a gtx or an rt makes a difference to my own crazy mind. Lol
 
Until these engines started coming out with the vin numbers on the oil pan rail, it was almost impossible to tell what vehicle it came out of. If the previous owner had some pics and documents showing what vehicle it came from then you could claim it was a certain one. Sometimes by the attached parts on an engine it might narrow it down.

I hear what you're saying. Use your block to make yourself a nice cruzer and keep it simple and maintenance free as possible. Going too erratic on a street machine requires too much maintenance and can become expensive too. Also a milder engine can run off of a less expensive fuel. You want a pleasurable ride, not a headache or pita.

Good luck with your build :thumbsup:
 
It seems this TNT topic came up elsewhere, years ago too. Interesting reads, (not 100% factual.)

https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/66-440-tnt.9442/

http://www.stationwagonforums.com/f...-70-chrysler-t-c-what-do-i-really-have.12991/

Engine chart.

http://www.lhmopars.com/engines.htm

I think I've only see one TNT engine years ago and had forgotten about such a thing until it was brought up again.

It was a way for Chrysler to have a "Special Lable" on a 375 hp 440 engine. All about selling cars...
There is some confusion regarding the first year 440 being called an HP engine. But 67' was the first year for the actual 375 horse HP as seen in all the gtx's and R/T.The 66 was not stamped, and was basically the standard 440 with dual exhausts, 365 Horse I believe. but the 66 Chrysler I have had the lower lift cam, but none of the of the 67' upgrades. also, the HP manifolds,chrome air cleaner, etc was then introduced as the upgrade 440 engine in the 67' C body line. No K coded (single exhaust) 440's were ever put in a b body car that I have ever heard of. So, the 67' CE23K code was then a single exhaust standard, and the CE23L code represented the same HP engine found in the B body. Chrysler did tell me my 67' was a special order car, likely by an older gent that wanted to go fast, but have a nicer ride. Who knows.
The car looks bigger, but without all the options,it is lighter than it looks. I know it rolls around and steers really easy even with the manual steering.

I warned my Chevy relatives that If I were so Inclined I would love to put it up to any full size Chevy they can find, and show them how a real car Hauls.HAHA
 
Until these engines started coming out with the vin numbers on the oil pan rail, it was almost impossible to tell what vehicle it came out of. If the previous owner had some pics and documents showing what vehicle it came from then you could claim it was a certain one. Sometimes by the attached parts on an engine it might narrow it down.

I hear what you're saying. Use your block to make yourself a nice cruzer and keep it simple and maintenance free as possible. Going too erratic on a street machine requires too much maintenance and can become expensive too. Also a milder engine can run off of a less expensive fuel. You want a pleasurable ride, not a headache or pita.

Good luck with your build :thumbsup:
Thanks i appreciate it!
 
The K is for the single exhaust 350 Horse engine, and L was for the 375 HP engine, the same as B bodies. The TNT had the same chrome valve covers, double snorkel air cleaner, double row chain,windage tray, cam, and HP manifolds(slightly different to clear the steering column) as the B body cars.
The other Interesting tidbit is the 67' 440 had two 915 heads. One (TNT)with the large exhaust valve, and the other for the standard 440. But, I have heads from both, and the standard smaller valve head also has a K stamped in the head(for 1967 single exhaust), and the larger valve head has an L stamped in the head. This is only on the 1967 915 heads.
Here are pictures below:

View attachment 493696 View attachment 493697 View attachment 493698




Yes I stand corrected I was think of the 66 year model the K was supposed to be the dual exhaust dual snorkel 440

IMG_1405.PNG
 
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