Why did Chrysler hate Plymouth so?

[moparedtn]

Don't down my PT Cruiser Ed.
View attachment 1099859
It's quicker than than a Hemi. Oops.... it is a Hemi.

Y'know, I kind of figured I'd hook a fish or two with that comment....

 

[tonysrt]

Plymouth had to compete against Chevy and Ford and the sales of those 2 were head and shoulders above Plymouth. At 1 time Chrysler was doing very well and it seems like they hit a brick wall with the poor quality control in the late 50's. Then in the 60's there new engineering helped but the ugliest cars were also coming out of Chrysler at that time. 63 started a step in the right direction and continued right through the 80's. The minivan was a shot in the arm with sales galore and the K cars sold fairly well. It seems like they kept watering down exclusive models like the Plymouth Fury in 59 and then the Letter series Chryslers in 62.

 

[Photon440]

Personally I think Daimler actually allowed Chrysler to move ahead. Sure they may have fired a bunch of people but that is very normal during a merger. People forget that Cerberus owned Chrysler for awhile and didn't do them any favors, at lease Daimler further things like the SRT line.

I don't know for sure but I am willing to bet that if one were able to really study Chrysler's financials going back 20-30 years or so you would find a lot waste, misspent funds and a general lack of fiscal responsibility much like most large corporations.

Don't forget that one of the very first things that Cerberus did when they took control was to turn around Daimler's policy of de-contenting the vehicles. Cerberus ramped up quality control and embarked on a process of up-scaling interiors, especially on the truck series; they improved the quality of materials, used soft-touch plastics in place of previous hard areas and tried to improve the impression of luxury.

Mind you, they did it with the motive of making the lines more salable so they could break up the company profitably, however bankruptcy happened before that could happen.

I don't think Chrysler hated Plymouth; Dodge hated Plymouth. Chrysler CREATED Plymouth, Dodge was just a company that they bought.

 

[70chall440]

I worked for one of Cerberus's companies and is very familiar with how they operate.

 

[YY1]

Simple brand hierarchy.

No hate involved.

There was a 5.9 "Howler" concept Prowler but it got killed due to emissions and high gas prices.

 

[YY1]

What I do find interesting is that Plymouth made some interesting choices as to "extra cost" items like cast, chromed medallions that comparable Dodge models didn't have.

For a "basic" car line that seems out of character and an unnecessary expense.

I can note 66/67 B body and C body cars as examples.

OTOH, on 66/67 Plymouths, the plastic switch panel feels "cheap" to me especially the headlight switch and could have easily been avoided by putting the switch in the metal dash, like the Dodge.

 

[Dave6T4]

What I do find interesting is that Plymouth made some interesting choices as to "extra cost" items like cast, chromed medallions that comparable Dodge models didn't have.

For a "basic" car line that seems out of character and an unnecessary expense.

I can note 66/67 B body and C body cars as examples.

OTOH, on 66/67 Plymouths, the plastic switch panel feels "cheap" to me especially the headlight switch and could have easily been avoided by putting the switch in the metal dash, like the Dodge.

Referring to the '66-'67 Plymouth and Dodge B-bodies, I have always thought the Satellite and GTX interiors looked "richer" with their western-themed scrolled seat covers and door panels. They also have a nicely sculpted trim panel to finish off the top of the rear seat. I own a 1967 Coronet R/T and have always thought the interior is "ho-hum" compared to the less expensive comparable Plymouth. My car has just plain pleated seat covers and door panels, and a plain straight rear seat top. Pretty boring.

 

[YY1]

...They also have a nicely sculpted trim panel to finish off the top of the rear seat. .

This is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to.

That HAD to cost more than the Dodge rear seat. it was a different assembly and had a n additional part.

Let's not forget the 67 GTX had chrome exhaust tips while the R/T did not.

Plymouth E body cars and 71-75 B body 2 doors had header panels in front of the hood, while the Dodges did not.
That's an extra stamping and a handfull of extra fasteners.
That HAS to cost more.

 

[Dave6T4]

This is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to.

That HAD to cost more than the Dodge rear seat. it was a different assembly and had a n additional part.

Let's not forget the 67 GTX had chrome exhaust tips while the R/T did not.

Plymouth E body cars and 71-75 B cars had header panels in front of the hood, while the Dodges did not.
That's an extra stamping and a handfull of extra fasteners.
That HAS to cost more.

Yeah, the no chrome exhaust tips for '67 R/T has always bugged me. This is the only classic era Mopar musclecar that never had standard or optional chrome tips. I once examined a 1966 Plymouth Belvedere II for a fellow to determine whether it was a real Hemi car (it was), and was amazed to find that the full length side moldings were all chromed die cast pieces. I was expecting stainless or anodized aluminum. That had to be comparatively expensive to do. This car was an early build (November 1965) and had the controversial HP2 signs on the front fernder. Also factory Mauve color that had been repainted Resale Red.

 

[Photon440]

Simple brand hierarchy.

No hate involved.

There was a 5.9 "Howler" concept Prowler but it got killed due to emissions and high gas prices.

The Howler concept used the 4.7 DOHC engine, I don't think it was a serious showcase as the whole Prowler car line was such low production. I'm sure if that engine could pass emissions in the Dakota, full sized truck and Grand Cherokee then it would have worked in the lighter Howler.

The original Prowler had only 214 hp. while the 4.7 V8 had 235. However, the 3.5 v6 was upgraded to 253 hp. around the time of the Howler concept.

 

[Slap Stick]

Simple brand hierarchy.

No hate involved.

There was a 5.9 "Howler" concept Prowler but it got killed due to emissions and high gas prices.

The Howler had the 4.7L V8 and 5 spd from the trucks.
Chrysler realized the Prowler sold only 11k units over the entire production run so they nixed it.

 

[YY1]

Funny, as those were the same projected sales figures for the P/T, and they were OK with that.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Right now, the only Chrysler models produced are the minivan & 300 which means that it won't be long before Chrysler is gone. Dodge isn't far behind with only 5 models to choose from.

 

[YY1]

I think Fiat/Peugeot will keep Dodge (or Ram) for the trucks and for sure jeep.

I sure do see a LOT of Chargers and Challengers, though.

 

[Photon440]

 

[Slap Stick]

Funny, as those were the same projected sales figures for the P/T, and they were OK with that.

The difference was the Prowler was a separate platform. The PT was a reskinned Neon. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Prowler was difficult to meet crash standards.