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440 oil pressure issue

1966satellite

1966satellite

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I just fire up my 440 after a rebuild. Bored .030, cam& lifters, new bearings, new high volume oil pump, new water pump etc. Initially I had 75 psi oil pressure. after the engine warmed up it would not hold 20 psi at idle and only went up to about 30 at 2000 rpm. Any ideas on what the problem might be? I'm going to replace the filter first and if that doesn't help I guess I'll check the oil pump next.
Thanks!
 
loose clearances would be my guess. example would be 20 under main bearings on a 10 under crank
 
there's a pipe plug between the #1 cam and main bearing. sounds like it wasn't installed.
 
lewtot184 said:
there's a pipe plug between the #1 cam and main bearing. sounds like it wasn't installed.
Click to expand...

This is the one LEW is talking about

PA070006.jpgPA090002.jpg


Although this is a valid concern, I would be surprised if there were ANY oil pressure if this plug was missing.

I would be more inclined to suspect the oil pump relief valve was jammed open and bypassing a lot of oil. Maybe some gunk got in there and stuck the valve open??
 
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1966satellite said:
......... Initially I had 75 psi oil pressure. after the engine warmed up it would not hold 20 psi at idle and only went up to about 30 at 2000 rpm. Any ideas on what the problem might be? Thanks!
Click to expand...


Or more logically, since you had good pressure at first fire up, your high pressure opened the relief valve at that point and then it won't close back shut completely resulting in your low pressure.

You might want to pull the cap, spring, and valve from the housing and clean it up real well and reinstall. Also try to clean the relief valve bore in the pump as well.
 
Mopars & Missiles said:
Or more logically, since you had good pressure at first fire up, your high pressure opened the relief valve at that point and then it won't close back shut completely resulting in your low pressure.

You might want to pull the cap, spring, and valve from the housing and clean it up real well and reinstall. Also try to clean the relief valve bore in the pump as well.
Click to expand...
That is my first thought.....if that plug was left out, there would have been no pressure at all.
 
Mopars & Missiles said:
This is the one LEW is talking about

View attachment 186634View attachment 186635


Although this is a valid concern, I would be surprised if there were ANY oil pressure if this plug was missing.

I would be more inclined to suspect the oil pump relief valve was jammed open and bypassing a lot of oil. Maybe some gunk got in there and stuck the valve open??
Click to expand...
that plugged passage is the main feed from the pump to the #1 main and passenger side oil galley. the only reason I mention this is that a friend had a similar problem and that was the culprit. probably the only thing that prevents zero pressure is the heavy relief spring and the pumps larger rotors.
 
lewtot184 said:
that plugged passage is the main feed from the pump to the #1 main and passenger side oil galley. the only reason I mention this is that a friend had a similar problem and that was the culprit. probably the only thing that prevents zero pressure is the heavy relief spring and the pumps larger rotors.
Click to expand...

Yes, the reason I have these photos is because my machinist left that plug out when he returned the block to me and said it was ready for assembly. I happened to find it missing during my inspection of the block prior to starting assembly. Just one of several mistakes I found that he had made, but it is easy to miss that particular plug since it faces down.
 
Thanks guys! I haven't found the problem yet but you've given me some areas to look. I did plastigauge one main and one rod when I assembled the engine so I don't think bearing clearance is the cause unless the crank had one journal turned or if the bearings had a wrong size one in the package. I took the oil pump apart and cleaned everything but I didn't see anything wrong with it. I replaced the oil filter, a Fram PH43 with a Fram PH8A. I haven't started it yet because now I'm not getting any spark at the spark plugs. I plan to replace the distributor next. I wonder what's going to go wrong next!
 
Latest Update: Ok, the problem with the distributor was the retarded mechanic (me). I had the intermediate shaft off by two teeth. Fixed that and it fired up and had 75# oil pressure at idle. Now I just have to run it till it gets to temperature and see how much oil pressure it has. Wish me luck!!
 
A word of caution here, First glad you got it figured out and the pressure is back up. My advise though is to get rid of the FRAM filter. They are absolutely junk and will do more harm than good. There have been numerous posts on this subject both here and on that other MOPARTS site. Go with Wix from Napa, Ford FL-1A from Motorcraft, and the Mopar offerings. The K&N is also worth the costs. Anything from Fram is known for inferior quality and construction. DAMHIK....cr8crshr/Tuck
 
cr8crshr said:
A word of caution here, First glad you got it figured out and the pressure is back up. My advise though is to get rid of the FRAM filter. They are absolutely junk and will do more harm than good. There have been numerous posts on this subject both here and on that other MOPARTS site. Go with Wix from Napa, Ford FL-1A from Motorcraft, and the Mopar offerings. The K&N is also worth the costs. Anything from Fram is known for inferior quality and construction. DAMHIK....cr8crshr/Tuck
Click to expand...

Let me start off by saying that everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Then let me say that blanket statements condemning Fram products (or any other company for that matter) have to be taken with a grain of salt. I know, I know, I too have read the guys 'test' of a ton of filters on the market. He has some good points of comparison. Unfortunately, when it comes to 'tests' or 'real world experience' I'll go with the latter every time. How do these filters perform in everyday use? My own experience over the last 50 years of driving, building motors for myself and for others, and drag racing motors that spun to 9,600 RPM (something I wouldn't try with my Mopar) all with Fram HP oil filters, lets me know that their products are NOT all inferior in quality and construction. I NEVER had a bearing or any other oil related failure, nor did any of my colleages. Reading articles and then repeating them to others does not make something true.
As I said, opinions will vary, but mine have a substantial amount of experience with the product. BTW, I am retired and never worked for Fram...lol.
 
High volume this, high flow that. Ma knew. Use normal stuff. Mine is pegged.
 
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Have no idea. After running for 30 minutes, factory gauge drops a bit. Builds quick at start up.
 
coloradodave said:
Let me start off by saying that everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Then let me say that blanket statements condemning Fram products (or any other company for that matter) have to be taken with a grain of salt. I know, I know, I too have read the guys 'test' of a ton of filters on the market. He has some good points of comparison. Unfortunately, when it comes to 'tests' or 'real world experience' I'll go with the latter every time. How do these filters perform in everyday use? My own experience over the last 50 years of driving, building motors for myself and for others, and drag racing motors that spun to 9,600 RPM (something I wouldn't try with my Mopar) all with Fram HP oil filters, lets me know that their products are NOT all inferior in quality and construction. I NEVER had a bearing or any other oil related failure, nor did any of my colleages. Reading articles and then repeating them to others does not make something true.
As I said, opinions will vary, but mine have a substantial amount of experience with the product. BTW, I am retired and never worked for Fram...lol.
Click to expand...

Dave you are then a very fortunate user and my congrats to you. I on the other hand have seen what can happen by using Fram Filters and the effects they can have on engine internals. Therefore we are on differing sides of this. Never one to tell others what they should and shouldn't do, I am along with quite a few others, merely stating what I have experienced and others I know that have as well. As the axiom goes..."Caveat Emptier"...Just sayin' is all...cr8crshr/Tuck
 
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Excuse me but this is a quote from your post: "My advise (sic) is to get rid of the Fram filter". I, for one, would be very interested in seeing proof that a Fram filter failed in use. Not saying that it has never happened, but would like you to expound on your experience. And I agree with you on Caveat Emptor (buyer beware), and as Budnicks says, " do your research before you spends your money" (very loosely translated).
 
Stock motor even bored 30 over with stock stuff should be fine with the stock oil pump. which I think is Mildon anyway? Stroker motor High volume pump a must :)

Hope you figure it out, I just checked my build pics to see If I had put my galley plug in lol good thing it's in I get 75-80 at start up and run at 45-60 at cruise. drops to 30 HOT in traffic at a stop.

But then again I could be on another insane tip again lol :headbang:
 
Dave the test is really simple here. Go buy a Fram filter and the corresponding equivalent from who ever you choose. Cut both open and examine the internals. Every other Filter brand out there has top quality materials which won't disintegrate after usage. The Frams all come with Paper Filters which as most know will deteriorate when used more rapidly then say the composites now used. I will stand by my argument that Frams are nothing but junk. Always have been and always will be. You gets what you pay for. You want to go cheap then be prepared for the worst. You are the exception to this I will admit according to your statements. I have to respect that. You however are in the rarity on this. Carry on....cr8crshr/Tuck
 
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