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Purplebeeper cooling question

James Hogan

Well-Known Member
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7:29 PM
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Location
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I just read a 3 year old thread regarding anti freeze. You stated that running only water with a rust inhibitor would decrease water temps by about 20 degrees. My question to you would be, why wouldn't I just use distilled water and a rust inhibitor? Like you I live near Chicago, (Tinley Park) but my Charger never sees cold weather. During the winter it's in a heated garage. I've been chasing a running hot problem for 3 years, this could be my answer. Thanks.
 
First, what's your current cooling system consistent of. Stock fan, pump, shroud? Typically, most cooling issues are due to lack of flow. The best improvement I've seen in addressing this issue is using a high performance water pump. They move way more coolant than a stock 6 blade impeller. 440'
 
New aluminum radiator last summer. Yes to shroud, 180 stat. I had a high flow pump but it seemed to move the water too fast, like the water wasn't in the radiator long enough to cool it. Stock blade with Hayden clutch. Thanks guys, I'd really like to grt this figured out. This is my only reliability issue. Also has an electric pusher fan.
 
If your T stat is working correctly I do not believe the water could be moving through the radiator too fast. The T stat controls the flow but opening and closing based on temp in an effort to regulate the system.

So if you take this in simple form, there are 2 things at work here;

1. the engine is producing heat through the ignition of air/fuel and the friction of the various moving parts.

2. the cooling system is moving fluid through the engine via the water jackets which is absorbing the heat generated by the engine and once the temp reaches the threshold of the thermostat is released into the radiator where it transfers the heat to the radiator which is cooled by the passing air flowing through it, thus cooling the fluid as it returns to the system to repeat this cycle. (overly simplified but I think generally accurate).

So, this then leaves us to deal with both sides; making the heat and removing the heat. Since we all want our engines to run as good as they can, there are limited things we can do to reduce the amount of heat produced, however it should be noted that timing can and does have a direct effect on this effect. Secondary to this can be the removal of ambient heat residing in the engine bay but in a street car not a lot can be done here short of wrapping the exhaust and/or creating openings for the heat to exit which most will not want to do. Therefore, adjustment of the timing is the one thing that can be done that has a direct effect on the reduction of heat produced.

This then leaves the issue of cooling and how to deal with that. In a perfect world, the thermostat will regulate the heat by opening and closing, however if the engine produces more heat than the cooling system can remove, the T stat will just remain open all the time and so long as the temps don't climb this isn't an issue. However if the temps do climb and continue say past 220, then of course there can be problems. Your cooling system has to be set up to support the amount of heat produced (some rate it by HP but I believe this to be anecdotal and an attempt to provide some level of understanding of the process).

There is a lot of "voodoo" surrounding cooling systems but it really comes down to volume, fluid flow, air flow and surface contact area. You have to have enough flow so that the fluid is moving in large enough quantities to absorb enough of the heat and move it to the radiator. Your system has to be big enough to able to present enough volume so that a portion can be cooled as another part is heated. You have to be able to move enough air across the radiator to extract/remove enough heat to reduce the temperature significantly in order to repeat and sustain the system. Lastly but in conjunction with the air flow is that you have to have enough surface contact area in the radiator for the air flow to contact and remove heat.

I will say up front that there is a seemingly huge amount of "black magic" too aftermarket cooling systems and accessories, thus it is very difficult to nail down what will work for any particular application and situation. Perhaps, the biggest issue is that there are so many variable ranging from application to environment and it is almost impossible for manufacturers to provide exacting details on what will work. Therefore we are left with general concepts such as "run the biggest radiator possible" and "use high CFM fans".

Simply put, a large 3 core radiator with a proper fan and shroud with a good thermostat should cool most engines adequately. The problem here is that all of these have their own variables. A high flow pump will definitely help most cases and I am very skeptical that it could be moving the water/fluid "too fast".

Have you tried "Water Wetter"? Perhaps this will solve your issues?
 
I just read a 3 year old thread regarding anti freeze. You stated that running only water with a rust inhibitor would decrease water temps by about 20 degrees. My question to you would be, why wouldn't I just use distilled water and a rust inhibitor? Like you I live near Chicago, (Tinley Park) but my Charger never sees cold weather. During the winter it's in a heated garage. I've been chasing a running hot problem for 3 years, this could be my answer. Thanks.

It's easy enough to try, give it a shot!...but if you have a 'running hot' problem, I doubt simply switching to straight water is going to fix it. Although you didn't specify how hot it's running.

High-volume pumps 'pumping too fast through the radiator' is horse hockey. So much of the 'theory' touted these days looks great on paper but it just doesn't match up to real-world results. I've never, ever seen speeding up the coolant flow cause temps to increase; in most cases I've witnessed, the faster flow dropped temps at least by a little. I'm sure there is a theoretical point that you could flow too fast, but any pump getting put on our engines comes nowhere close to moving it that fast. If you move coolant through the radiator slower, it's moving through the hot block slower too..
Your pusher fan and shroud setup may be causing your problem. Improper ignition timing and/or fuel mixture causes hot running. Have you done a good proper engine flush and refill? Drain the block, pop a freeze plug and have a look sometime...it can get awfully crusty and ugly in there! There are plenty of ways to get a hot running engine but the coolant type isn't one of them. The factory designed system works really good when correct, unless you have a very modified engine.
 
Wow! A lot of very good info, thanks. I'll put the high flow pump back on. I should mention that the reason I installed the pusher fan was because going down the highway at 60 mph, on a 90 degree day, the temp stayed right about 190. My thought process is that I just proved that the radiator has the ability to cool the fluid, I just need to move more air across the radiator. So far that hasn't worked. The engine has 5000 miles on it since being rebuilt by a Mopar specific rebuilder. I had it dyno tuned 4 years ago by a shop in Wisconsin that also specialises in Mopars. The car starts and runs great, and I'm leery of changing the timing. I could adjust the timing, if it doesn't help I can always put it back.
 
Wow! A lot of very good info, thanks. I'll put the high flow pump back on. I should mention that the reason I installed the pusher fan was because going down the highway at 60 mph, on a 90 degree day, the temp stayed right about 190. My thought process is that I just proved that the radiator has the ability to cool the fluid, I just need to move more air across the radiator. So far that hasn't worked. The engine has 5000 miles on it since being rebuilt by a Mopar specific rebuilder. I had it dyno tuned 4 years ago by a shop in Wisconsin that also specialises in Mopars. The car starts and runs great, and I'm leery of changing the timing. I could adjust the timing, if it doesn't help I can always put it back.
As far as your tune, it's great that you had it initially set up on a dyno but it will change as time goes on. The timing may be fine, but carbs gum up and mixtures change with air conditions. I assumed you're not running EFI, but keep an eye on the plugs, they'll tell you all you need to know. Besides any of that, I usually keep this in mind: if it's getting hot at highway/cruising, I start with the radiator/coolant flow. If it's getting hot at idle, I look at airflow first. One will definitely affect the other but that guideline has saved me time diagnosing cooling issues in the past.
 
I installed the pusher fan was because going down the highway at 60 mph, on a 90 degree day, the temp stayed right about 190. j
What's wrong with 190?

My thought process is that I just proved that the radiator has the ability to cool the fluid, I just need to move more air across the radiator. So far that hasn't worked.
At 60 MPH you should not even need a fan. My guess is that the pusher might be getting in the way and blocking air flow, or maybe (I'm just shooting from the hip now) even creating some type of turbulance between the two fans, reducing air flow. Granted, that may be a long shot. but for what it's worth. I'm running an OEM 22" radiator with a stock 7 blade direct drive fan, with a shroud and a 180° stat and I run 180° all day long. Maybe 190° in traffic on a 90°+ day. Just something else to consider.
 
At 60 MPH you should not even need a fan. My guess is that the pusher might be getting in the way and blocking air flow, or maybe (I'm just shooting from the hip now) even creating some type of turbulance between the two fans, reducing air flow.

^^^^This^^^^ Heard of it happening before!
 
Removing the pusher fan is a 5 minute job, it's absolutely worth a try. I'll have to wait a week or two until the weather gets warmer. Thanks again to everyone, I appreciate all the help.
 
Something else to look at.
How far in the shroud is your fan?
Does your shroud seal good to the radiator?
And lastly does your car have the bottom tin work between the radiator & bumper?
You want your fan to be in the shroud to maximize suction.
You want the shroud to seal good so it isn't suckling air in between the shroud and raiator.
Lastly you want the bottom tin work there to help force the air through the radiator and not around it.
Also check your fan clutch when it's hot to see how much resistance it has. Maybe it's not spinning fast enough. You can also put a smaller water pump pulley on.
 
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