Need some engine advice....

[hunt2elk]

Just skimmed through your post. I am surprised that Brian is treating you that way,maybe there is more to that.........
IMO there are now 2 choices,water/meth injection can lower your IAT by up to 50* or a baby shot of nitrous can drop your IAT over 100* on a 90* day!
That is the route I am taking. W/m might be your best bet if nitrous is out of the question. A 50/100 hp is not that much. A cast piston/crank engine can handle that with no issue.

Yeah, I think something is going on with him. Got a hold of his helper yesterday and was told he would be gone to the doctor all day. Hopefully everything is ok.
My problem with adding this extra stuff on the car is that it is not what I wanted. I specified a 550hp - 550 ft.lb engine that I could fill up with 91 octane gas at any station and never have a detonation issue. Fun street car, not a race car.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I understand your frustration. Unless you want to change hard parts or even just the cam to bleed off some pressure my suggestions are simple "bolt ons" without removing anything more than the carb.
I added and can't wait to try it with traction!!

 

[moparedtn]

Question from the peanut gallery:
Do aluminum heads (theoretically) help or exacerbate engine temperature and/or detonation issues?

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Aluminum heads alow over 1 point for CR.

 

[Nate S]

I think you have a fundamental choice ahead of you. How do you want to use this? Drag racing? Cruiser / driver? How many miles per year? Is it driveable with 30° of advance? any power? Getting 110 octane gas by the tankful in a car that gets 10mpg for cruising around starts sucking pretty quickly. Driving with 30° advance and giving up the power when you've put a lot into the engine also gets to sucking pretty quickly. While the heads are still pretty much new I'd think about cutting losses and getting the largest chamber heads available and selling what you've got. Clearly the engine builder is a hacker and not going to help. If it's just a dragster you can put in all sorts of stuff to make it work but if you want to walk out in the morning and drive it to work on a nice day you'll want something more workable.

 

[Nate S]

Question from the peanut gallery:
Do aluminum heads (theoretically) help or exacerbate engine temperature and/or detonation issues?

Yes, to the tune of around 1 compression point.

 

[hunt2elk]

I think you have a fundamental choice ahead of you. How do you want to use this? Drag racing? Cruiser / driver? How many miles per year? Is it driveable with 30° of advance? any power? Getting 110 octane gas by the tankful in a car that gets 10mpg for cruising around starts sucking pretty quickly. Driving with 30° advance and giving up the power when you've put a lot into the engine also gets to sucking pretty quickly. While the heads are still pretty much new I'd think about cutting losses and getting the largest chamber heads available and selling what you've got. Clearly the engine builder is a hacker and not going to help. If it's just a dragster you can put in all sorts of stuff to make it work but if you want to walk out in the morning and drive it to work on a nice day you'll want something more workable.

Cruiser/driver with some spirited street driving thrown in is what call it, 2000 miles per year. I am not interested in mixing race gas with 91. There is only 1 place that sells it here and that is 15 miles away. Even with gas being cheap right now, it is still $9/gallon. It runs ok at 30 degrees and the heaviest springs in the dist, but still detonates without race gas mixed in.
He did email me at 1 am this morning, but oddly just asked what jets are in the carb. Didn't give me the specs on the pistons or head gaskets.
I have a feeling I will be pulling the motor, taking to somewhere in the Twin Cities, and having different head gaskets and pistons installed. I want it done right. Hate to give up the Trick Flow's, since everybody seems to love them.
I want to fix it right

 

[PRHeads]

Since it doesn’t sound like the current configuration is “close” to being able to run ping free on the swill that’s available in your area(with the motor tuned properly)...... if it comes apart for a revamp....... I wouldn’t “tweak” the combo.
I’d take a pretty good swing at it.
9.5cr max, along with basically perfect quench.

 

[Nate S]

Since it doesn’t sound like the current configuration is “close” to being able to run ping free on the swill that’s available in your area(with the motor tuned properly)...... if it comes apart for a revamp....... I wouldn’t “tweak” the combo.
I’d take a pretty good swing at it.
9.5cr max, along with basically perfect quench.

For reference I just built a 426W with Iron open chamber heads at 9.25:1 and can run 93 octane with 38° max advance all in by 2500 rpm. This is with a stock magnum cam. 89 pings when it's warm but not when cool. With Aluminum you should get another point, so 10.25 and be in the same place but you've got a big cam which will help a little (but less than some might have you believe). Quench might get you a bit more still. You're probably safe at 10cr and likely want that much for the cam anyway. Could gamble on 10.5 but having another ping problem would really suck a second time around.

 

[PRHeads]

I’m giving the engine builder the benefit of the doubt that he filled out the build sheet correctly....... which states that the current CR is 9.9:1.
If its pinging noticeably at 9.9:1 now, I’m going to shoot for around 1/2 point lower CR....... and fix the quench problem.

My proposed 9.5cr is based on what the current available info shows the CR of the engine to be now.
When the motor is disassembled, the actual CR can be verified, and the plan adjusted as necessary.

 

[451Mopar]

Question from the peanut gallery:
Do aluminum heads (theoretically) help or exacerbate engine temperature and/or detonation issues?

They remove heat from the chamber and into the cooling system quicker, so less hot spots in the chamber.

 

[wyrmrider]

I'll bet ft pistons and needs a dish
x2 what PRH has been saying
or water injection

 

[33 IMP]

You are getting great advice here from professionals. From an amateur's perspective.....
I would just like to fix the problem. The pro advice will fix it properly , but then you are talking engine removal, new pistons, either icon shelf ($650) or custom ($1000?) rebalance probably, and new cometics anyway.
I would invest in $400 cometics, drop the compression ratio at least a half point, maybe three quarter. You won't have to yank the motor, down a day for a gasket swap only. Quench is very nice to have, but not the be-all end-all. IQ52 built a junk iron head 446 with the pistons .150 in the hole (7.5-8 to 1) to 550 hp on FABO.
Brian did my iron max heads, and I was very happy, he dealt very fairly with a difficult customer (me), I'm surprised at your difficulty dealing with him, but if he's sick..... and the curfew situation.... who knows what is going on? You have a perfect right to be unhappy though.
Again, from my amateur perspective, I would yank the heads and throw gaskets at it. Might just save a LOT more work and money.
By the way, nothing wrong with the meth injection idea, but I would rather go the more permanent, less maintenance route.

 

[33 IMP]

Just a further note. When I was there last, the only help in the shop was Brian's dad, Fred. That may have changed since.

 

[hunt2elk]

Well good news I think. Just spent 45 minutes on the phone with Brian. He is just very busy and putting in some long hours trying to get half way caught up. Virus thing, riots, and a malfunctioning dyno have not been helping him.
Anyway he is shocked that I am having the detonation problem. The piston is a flat top with 8cc for the valves, .010" in the hole. .080" head gaskets. He builds his engines with no quench on purpose. The pistons and cam in the motor are what he wants to stick with. So he wants to try thicker head gaskets.
He really feels bad about the whole thing but will make it right. 2 options: I can pull the motor and ship it back to him (he will pay the freight both ways), he will change the gaskets and re dyno it. Or he will send me everything to do the job here and give me some kind of break on another build( don't know at this point in my life that I will do another one though). I feel a lot better now after talking to him and feel as though it is not some hacked up build.

 

[33 IMP]

I had a feeling he would try to make it right. I had a real good impression of both Brian and Fred when they did work for me. When the time comes for my stroker, they are gonna do the machine work. They are about 80 miles from my house, and once the casinos open up again, a place to play on the trip back!

 

[Nate S]

Well good news I think. Just spent 45 minutes on the phone with Brian. He is just very busy and putting in some long hours trying to get half way caught up. Virus thing, riots, and a malfunctioning dyno have not been helping him.
Anyway he is shocked that I am having the detonation problem. The piston is a flat top with 8cc for the valves, .010" in the hole. .080" head gaskets. He builds his engines with no quench on purpose. The pistons and cam in the motor are what he wants to stick with. So he wants to try thicker head gaskets.
He really feels bad about the whole thing but will make it right. 2 options: I can pull the motor and ship it back to him (he will pay the freight both ways), he will change the gaskets and re dyno it. Or he will send me everything to do the job here and give me some kind of break on another build( don't know at this point in my life that I will do another one though). I feel a lot better now after talking to him and feel as though it is not some hacked up build.

This calculates out to 10.54:1. A .100" head gasket would make it 10.12:1, a .12" head gasket would make it 9.735:1. All up to you after that. I'd rather swap heads than an engine and then the worst part... waiting for it...

 

[LowDeck451]

Glad to hear you have some sort of solution(?). Next most obvious question... “no quench on purpose” I wonder why?

 

[PRHeads]

Well, IMM is an experienced Mopar shop, and I realize everyone has their own way of going about things......... and I know this will seem like “armchair quarterbacking” the build....... but, frankly....... the fact that a 10.5:1 BB Mopar(with the updated build info it’s clear the motor doesn’t have 9.9cr) with no effective quench isn’t happy on 91........that isn’t really a big shocker.

 

[hunt2elk]

This calculates out to 10.54:1. A .100" head gasket would make it 10.12:1, a .12" head gasket would make it 9.735:1. All up to you after that. I'd rather swap heads than an engine and then the worst part... waiting for it...

Can you point me in the direction of the compression ratio calculator you are using? When I hung up with him, he still mentioned that it was at 9.9 now. I want to have all the numbers in front of me for the next time I talk to him.