You may have already heard this...but, CANADA?

[Triplegreen500]

Comparing lithium strip mining to lets say coal? Is like throwing a snowball at a house fire. With lithium? They are not taking nearly the amount of material. Which means it's much easier to back fill. Which is what is required. It's a false equivalency. Besides, lithium is just the best option today.

Make no mistake. There is no such thing as clean energy. There is just better, bad, and really bad. With coal being the worse. Just look at the life expectancy of a coal miner? And we are burning that material then releasing into the atmosphere/environment without a care in the world. Well, not anymore. Unfortunately it looks like transportation sector is taking the first hit on this effort.

So, we consume coal to create energy. Cleanly, actually, these days...but I won't bother you with facts.

I will ask, however - what do we do with expended lithium? There is no "expended" coal to dispose of....but lithium? Extremely poisonous, hazardous, deadly, leftover lithium? What do we do with that, once the batteries reach end-of-service? Can't put it back in the ground....we already know that, because landfills and recycle centers don't take cell phone batteries, remote control batteries, car batteries....so, what's the "green" answer for all that waste?

And while they don't recover near as much lithium in a mine as they do coal (it's a much more rare element, for one thing)...they still displace just as much of the planet to get it out of the ground. And, even without burning it to make energy (like coal)...it's even more deadly to humans and animals. Just sitting there. No consumption/burning required.

1. just as deadly, just sitting there
2. just as invasive to recover in the first place
3. MORE deadly if it does catch on fire (witness all the flaming Teslas and Chevy Volt's), not only through super-hot fire but also the chemical cloud and smoke
4. nearly impossible to dispose of, once it no longer serves a purpose.

Explain to me how that's the "better" choice again?

 

[Dennis H]

Comparing lithium strip mining to lets say coal? Is like throwing a snowball at a house fire. With lithium? They are not taking nearly the amount of material. Which means it's much easier to back fill. Which is what is required. It's a false equivalency. Besides, lithium is just the best option today.

Make no mistake. There is no such thing as clean energy. There is just better, bad, and really bad. With coal being the worse. Just look at the life expectancy of a coal miner? And we are burning that material then releasing into the atmosphere/environment without a care in the world. Well, not anymore. Unfortunately it looks like transportation sector is taking the first hit on this effort. I'm guessing plastics production is next. Which causes a whole new set of challenges. But I believe chemistry and engineering can and will solve this issue. With far more ecological sound materials. Electricity generation/storage and consumption will be the biggest fight.

Ignore Science. When they bring up science, it’s like when Obummer said”let me be clear. Only bahloney followed.

 

[Cojohnso1]

Ignore Science. When they bring up science, it’s like when Obummer said”let me be clear. Only bahloney followed.

What science is being "Ignored"? What? That lithium is not all that clean? But trying to compare renewable energy with lithium electricity storage to fossil fuel environmental impacts. Is a joke. BTU to BTU. Watt to Watt comparison. I would pick a different debate category.

 

[Cojohnso1]

What is stunning to me? Is how much this planet can take. And does take. Billions of tons of naturally occurring pollutants. Then add ours? This is one incredible machine this planet Earth.

I also think how hard solar really is in development. Solar is outstanding on a plantatary scale. It can easily produce energies to develop things like hurricanes. But it's not too good at modular levels? Take tree for instance. If you look at the leaves? That is a huge solar collective area when adding up all those leaves. And thats just to keep one tree alive? Mother nature is not even that good at solar collection in photosynthesis. And the ultimate irony? All forms of energy here on earth is due to a giant fusion reactor in space approximately 93 million miles away.

I really wish there was a magic bullet. Perhaps there is none? But doesn't mean stop looking?

 

[Ironbuilt]

"Climate change" is a hoax being used by Socialists as a path to a carbon tax!!! Their ultimate end-game is not to "save the planet", it's to scam us out of more of our hard earned money.
BREAKING NEWS...
Planet Earth was here for millions of years before us, and will be here for millions of years after we are extinct!!

 

[Cojohnso1]

"Climate change" is a hoax being used by Socialists as a path to a carbon tax!!! Their ultimate end-game is not to "save the planet", it's to scam us out of more of our hard earned money.
BREAKING NEWS...
Planet Earth was here for millions of years before us, and will be here for millions of years after we are extinct!!

First. It's, not a hoax. This concern was brought forth far before any "Carbon tax" idea. Im not on board with this tax idea.. Because it's not any solution. The planet is warming at a rate never before recorded. Yes, climate change is a natural occurrence. But what once took centuries and millenia's? Is now happening in decades. And that rate is increasing.

You don't have to believe me? Go ask farmers and ranchers if they believe in an accelerated climate change? They are VERY conservative folks that will tell you from their soil observations? Yes. Go ask fisherman if ocean conditions and fish populations are rapidly changing?

It's not some liberal ploy. It's not scientists just looking for glory? The data is overwhelming. And yet the counter argument provides no scientific discovery. (I understand that the defense doesn't have to produce evidence. But it would help the counter argument?)

All I see is those pushing the red "Disagree" Karen button because these facts and evidence makes one sad?

It makes me sad too. But truth is truth!

 

[Budnicks]

Iron Built your replacement is the self driving people killing 40ton tractor trailer made by Tesla, look for a job in solar! We will have jobs in Solar... my ... Here is a question if you want self driving mass transportation device it’s called a train, bus etc. trains drop the load at the depot and trucks take it to the site..
How are you going to run the PTO on my buddies wrecker to remove the Tesla truck off the Tesla car that caught fire and killed the idiot driver in the backseat because his car was a self driver and he wanted it to drive him around.. How many times are we going to beat the dead horse..?

 

[Cojohnso1]

View attachment 1134023

That's a good point. This topic I do lean left. Guns, Abortion and crime? Not so left. (Not that I want to start any **** show on them topics. Especially Abortion? I suddenly get thirsty for a beer when that topic comes up?)

 

[Ironbuilt]

That's a good point. This topic I do lean left. Guns, Abortion and crime? Not so left. (Not that I want to start any **** show on them topics. Especially Abortion? I suddenly get thirsty for a beer when that topic comes up?)

Abortion is just another word for MURDER!!!

 

[Cojohnso1]

Abortion is just another word for MURDER!!!

You may be right. I'm not sure in every case? But most? (Umm, A cold Miller Highlife on this hot Mon afternoon!)

 

[Triplegreen500]

The planet is warming at a rate never before recorded. Yes, climate change is a natural occurrence. But what once took centuries and millenia's? Is now happening in decades. And that rate is increasing.

...and yet, we're STILL cooler than we were during times like the Roman Warm Period and the time of the Egyptians (and even before that, according to archaeological evidence - but the RWP has the added benefit of contemporary human documentation). And, that was BEFORE any sort of "industrial emissions".

Table one is oxygen levels from ice cores; table two is the extrapolation of the temperature data from said samples.

But yeah...go ahead and blame humans, and cars, and coal, and CO2...whatever helps you feel important.

Here's a hint though - global temperature, much like day/night, and hi/low tides, and the phases of the moon, and the seasons of the year....is cyclical. It's just a cycle with a much lower frequency than the others - humans don't live long enough to see a complete cycle of warm-cold-warm, so we have a harder time understanding it.

 

[Cojohnso1]

...and yet, we're STILL cooler than we were during times like the Roman Warm Period and the time of the Egyptians (and even before that, according to archaeological evidence - but the RWP has the added benefit of contemporary human documentation). And, that was BEFORE any sort of "industrial emissions".

Table one is oxygen levels from ice cores; table two is the extrapolation of the temperature data from said samples.

View attachment 1134038

View attachment 1134039

But yeah...go ahead and blame humans, and cars, and coal, and CO2...whatever helps you feel important.

Here's a hint though - global temperature, much like day/night, and hi/low tides, and the phases of the moon, and the seasons of the year....is cyclical. It's just a cycle with a much lower frequency than the others - humans don't live long enough to see a complete cycle of warm-cold-warm, so we have a harder time understanding it.

First off. The top scale is oxygen levels. Not temps. We have not gone down in last few years. In fact, 4 of the 5 warmest years have been in the last 5 years. Two. Look at the time frames? The other samples are in centuries. What we are experiencing is in decades. Even single years.

All those that study not only ice core samples. But core mud and earth samples. Even tree rings of very old lived trees are saying the same thing? The scientists that took those samples are not agreeing with "your off the couch" analysis. They are the ones saying. "Holy ****!"

But what do we know?

 

[oldbee]

If you go BACK IN HISTORY with BATTERY cars & trucks, what LESSONS were learned? Hence they went BYE-BYE, even in cities as delivery trucks. That said, keep doing the same **** over & over again & expect a different result, good luck with that!! Oh, my bad, climate change means no more "cold weather" for the world, even for ya'll up in Canada. DAMN!! NO MORE HOCKEY ON FROZEN PONDS!! THAT SUCKS!!

That is the definition of insanity, trying the same thing over&over with same result.

 

[oldbee]

I want to know how they are going to power MY rig!!!
They want deliveries, I NEED power!!!

View attachment 1133777

BUT,but, you are part of the problem. Insert sarcasm!

 

[philcollins]

This says all you need to know....


View attachment 1133654

well, we don’t have that clown with orange hair, you had…

 

[Triplegreen500]

First off. The top scale is oxygen levels. Not temps.

First off, I said that right in my post.

Look at the time frames? The other samples are in centuries. What we are experiencing is in decades. Even single years.

Time frame doesn't change the fact that in raw, absolute numbers the earth has been warmer before, than it is now...and it survived just fine. It was also empirically warmer...before the ICE came along, and before the industrial revolution. And, even with the "more rapid" swings in temp since the industrial revolution...the overall temps STILL haven't surpassed the medieval warm period, or the period of the Egyptians, before they cycle back down again.

Maybe AOC has something with her cow-fart theory after all?

Or maybe all the "climate scientists" are ignoring the effects of major volcanic eruptions, on global cooling. You did see that, on the second chart, right? Every cooling swing comes not from man changing our activities, but from volcanoes popping off and shrouding the earth with ash? Almost like the planet knows how to regulate its own temperature....hmmmmm.......

 

[Richard Cranium]

well, we don’t have that clown with orange hair, you had…

Yeah, you've got a white Obama.

 

[oldbee]

So, we consume coal to create energy. Cleanly, actually, these days...but I won't bother you with facts.

I will ask, however - what do we do with expended lithium? There is no "expended" coal to dispose of....but lithium? Extremely poisonous, hazardous, deadly, leftover lithium? What do we do with that, once the batteries reach end-of-service? Can't put it back in the ground....we already know that, because landfills and recycle centers don't take cell phone batteries, remote control batteries, car batteries....so, what's the "green" answer for all that waste?

And while they don't recover near as much lithium in a mine as they do coal (it's a much more rare element, for one thing)...they still displace just as much of the planet to get it out of the ground. And, even without burning it to make energy (like coal)...it's even more deadly to humans and animals. Just sitting there. No consumption/burning required.

1. just as deadly, just sitting there
2. just as invasive to recover in the first place
3. MORE deadly if it does catch on fire (witness all the flaming Teslas and Chevy Volt's), not only through super-hot fire but also the chemical cloud and smoke
4. nearly impossible to dispose of, once it no longer serves a purpose.

Explain to me how that's the "better" choice again?

Yes, and what about the lithium battery storage that caught fire in Illinois/Indiana? Shot water on it and made it worse. 100's evacuated. Ah, no problem!

 

[Cojohnso1]

Yes, and what about the lithium battery storage that caught fire in Illinois/Indiana? Shot water on it and made it worse. 100's evacuated. Ah, no problem!

I would stay away from any individual incidents? You are WAY out gunned. (I thought that fire in the ocean was more more visually spectacular than actual environmentally damaging.) But EV will never get close to the body count from the fossil fuel development, extraction and consumption. Pinto's have killed more than all EV will combined?

 

[joe smith]

China produces more pollution than ALL of the other countries combined.. AND they plan on building something like 1000 more coal plants in the near future..
NO MATTER what America does, it will make NO DIFFERENCE to the earth as long as China pollutes this much....