Installing Classic Auto Air in a '70 Charger

[Kern Dog]

I pressurized the system to around 40 psi and sprayed all the fittings with soapy water. No bubbles were visible anywhere. What the heck is going on ?

I tried these hoses and gauges on the Plymouth and it wouldn’t get over 10” hgs, then I closed the valve and stopped the pump. It dropped to zero. That car has a leak somewhere.
I just tried this car again and got the same as before. It leaks just shy of 20” but does hold when I shut off the pump.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

How old and dried out are the hoses on the gauge set? How old and distorted are the seals on the hoses on the gauge set? The first thing you look at is the service equipment cause it always gets mistreated...

 

[Kern Dog]

Thanks. The stuff is old. The hoses do have cracks. I don’t hear any hissing but my hearing isn’t great.
I didn’t want to be the Carpenter that blames his hammer but crappy hoses and gauges would be the best scenario here. It would mean the system is okay.
I really wish I’d thought of a stuck heater control valve as a problem before hooking up the vacuum. I had what looked like adequate pressure on the low side. I should have ran the car and looked at the high side gauge. I’d have more information to learn what is at fault.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

After Joe Sanderson (RIP) installed the CAA in the Coronet, I took it to a reputable shop for a charge. 20 years ago. It’s still ice cold. At the time, only the original cable driven control box was available. Due to stretching, it always requires a tug at the firewall to ensure the hot water feed is entirely shut off. A small price to pay. I am totally ******* exhausted from all this reading. When I come across the red or blue car at a show somewhere this summer, they both better have ice cold ac. Jesus Chrysler.

Dennis always makes me smile and he'll be one of the first that I ask do a test drive after my car is back home. He has a heavy foot and will give it a good shakedown.

 

[Kern Dog]

Randy to the rescue again. Check this out:

R134A A/C Manifold Gauge Set
R134A A/C Manifold Gauge Set
R134A A/C Manifold Gauge Set


Since I've tested 2 cars now and been unable to get either one to go over 20" of vacuum, I'm wondering if the pump is weak too. Maybe I'll get these gauges and see.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Randy to the rescue again. Check this out:

R134A A/C Manifold Gauge Set
R134A A/C Manifold Gauge Set
R134A A/C Manifold Gauge Set
View attachment 1632199

Since I've tested 2 cars now and been unable to get either one to go over 20" of vacuum, I'm wondering if the pump is weak too. Maybe I'll get these gauges and see.

Like I said in the PM, I've had Snap On gauges... They cost a lot more but didn't work or last any better... Loosen all the connections when they aren't in use so the seals can relax and those gauges last & work well...

 

[Kern Dog]

I bought the Harbor Freight set and hooked it up. I was still only able to register around 20-21”. This vacuum pump I have is a turd.

On the advice of Randy, I went to Auto Zone for this:

It cost $180 but is part of their tool rental program. Once I’m done with it, I return it for a full refund.

Almost instantly it pegged at 30”.

It has been 15 minutes and it has stayed there. I guess it is safe to say that the car had no leaks. This surprised me since it was my first time crimping lines. I called the man at Classic Auto Air and confirmed that it takes 24 oz of R-134. I bought 2 cans.

I’ll call CAA tomorrow to order a heater control valve. This looks to be the reason for losing cold air.

 

[Kern Dog]

You know how sometimes you go about your way and an idea just pops into your head that saves time or money?
That happens to me a lot.
I often go into projects with a general idea of what I need to do but not a specific step by step plan. Along the way, sometimes an idea comes along that didn't occur to me before.
It sucks when you face problems and try multiple things to fix it, each one a dead end that cost time and money.
The heater control valve.

The CAA man suggested that IT might be stuck open. I asked him how I would determine that. He said something stupid like "Well, you just look for the flow..." as if the heater hoses are clear and transparent.
He suggested that I clamp off the hose leading to the valve and make note of the temperature of the air through the vents.
After dinner, I was watching TV with the wife and suddenly I thought....I could pull the valve out and look through it. If the temperature selector is on hot, I should be able to see through it. If it was set to cold.......

....I shouldn't be able to see through the valve.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

does the engine need to be warmed up to do that?

 

[Dennis H]

After Joe Sanderson (RIP) installed the CAA in the Coronet, I took it to a reputable AC specialty shop for a charge. 20 years ago. It’s still ice cold. At the time, only the original cable driven control box was available. Due to stretching, it always requires a tug at the firewall to ensure the hot water feed is entirely shut off. A small price to pay. I am totally ******* exhausted from all this reading. When I come across the red or blue car at a show somewhere this summer, they both better have ice cold ac. Jesus Chrysler.

AC specialty shop. Snug hot water valve shut.

 

[Malcolm302]

This is the way the factory did it in 1970 on big block engines:
View attachment 825724

For the longest time, this just looked way too busy for me. I started working on the 3 belt arrangement. The main problem I had with that was that I could not find the right single groove water pump pulley. I wasn't alone in that. The other pictures I found online also had the 2 groove WP pulley:


View attachment 825727
The inner groove would have worked but the outer groove would have just been along for the ride. I tried looking for a WP pulley the right depth and diameter. Mancini, Bouchillon and others that sell pulleys refused to tell me the specific measurements when I told them what I had planned. They only told me the original applications for the pulleys they sell and said they were not interested in selling pulleys that are guaranteed to come back for a refund when they don't fit. Great....What ever happened to hot rodding?

The cost of business is what is driving this kind of thing the 4 core 22" radiator I bought for 600.00 a year ago is 900+ now. they probably have had an astronomical amount of returns to turn business away like that and shipping costs seem to have tripled.

 

[Kern Dog]

does the engine need to be warmed up to do that?

No. The valve is entirely controlled by the electrical plug that is wired into the hot/cold switch.

 

[Kern Dog]

Here we go.

Simple electrical connector can stay in place.
Towel below to absorb coolant since my dogs lick everything.

According to the CAA Instructions…

Forward on the slide is COLD. This means….

Yes. The COLD setting means the valve blocks flow and you can’t see through it.

It looks blocked to me.

Huh ??

 

[Kern Dog]

I thought the control valve worked just from the temperature slider. It doesn’t. The fan slider/switch on the right has to be on.
Still, it gets weird. I was able to get the HCV to open and close, but….

How can this thing suddenly decide to work in reverse? It is open when it should be closed.

 

[Kern Dog]

I wasn’t sure if it mattered which direction the HCV was mounted since it is just a block off valve but I did install it right.

They both have the electrical plug on the near left.

I’ll call CAA and see if they have heard of this.
I didn’t rearrange any wires, I did nothing other than evacuate the system. It is strange that the heater really blew HOT despite this valve seemingly working in reverse.

 

[Kern Dog]

Twists and turns.
Please read the following and see how you interpret it.

To me, FULL FORWARD would mean toward the front.
Not to these guys. Apparently it is the opposite.
The man was helpful but admitted that the text of the instructions and the graphic on the panel are not ideal.
He said they tried to somewhat replicate some of the factory slide lever design but this is the best that they could come up with.
The Vintage Air control panel looks nicer to me…

Even the VA panel isn’t immediately evident which direction does what. You slide the levers and wait to see if anything changes. That is what I had to do with my car. I haven’t driven it enough for the HVAC controls to be instinctive.
Here I am though… the HCV is installed right and operating as needed so where is the problem?
The man said the HCV could be leaking coolant past the valve internally and to pull it and dribble water in and look for leaks.
I did that. It doesn’t drip a drop. That eliminates the HCV as a problem.
I’ll have to start from scratch. Evacuate, let it sit under the vacuum and fill the system.
He said that it needs to have low side pressures around 17 psi and high side around 170 psi. He said The compressor clutch won’t engage until the pressure reaches 28 psi.
More to come…

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Twists and turns.
Please read the following and see how you interpret it.

View attachment 1633148

To me, FULL FORWARD would mean toward the front.
Not to these guys. Apparently it is the opposite.
The man was helpful but admitted that the text of the instructions and the graphic on the panel are not ideal.
He said they tried to somewhat replicate some of the factory slide lever design but this is the best that they could come up with.
The Vintage Air control panel looks nicer to me…

View attachment 1633151

Even the VA panel isn’t immediately evident which direction does what. You slide the levers and wait to see if anything changes. That is what I had to do with my car. I haven’t driven it enough for the HVAC controls to be instinctive.
Here I am though… the HCV is installed right and operating as needed so where is the problem?
The man said the HCV could be leaking coolant past the valve internally and to pull it and dribble water in and look for leaks.
I did that. It doesn’t drip a drop. That eliminates the HCV as a problem.
I’ll have to start from scratch. Evacuate, let it sit under the vacuum and fill the system.
He said that it needs to have low side pressures around 17 psi and high side around 170 psi. He said The compressor clutch won’t engage until the pressure reaches 28 psi.
More to come…

 

[Kern Dog]

I evacuated the system again and let it sit at 30" vacuum for well over an hour, then...
I went to use this jug...

Either the valve on top is bad or something went wrong inside. I opened the valve It sputtered and spit some mist and other stuff out then stopped. I didn't know if there was something wrong with it. I tapped on it, shook the can and it did nothing. Either the valve had a clog or something is inside that blocked the flow. I don't know how you replace the valve without opening the system.
I called the guy that gave it to me and he doesn't remember anything other than he never tried using it.
It seemed like I was risking possible contamination by using it. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm just not experienced with this stuff.
I went ahead and used the two cans:

Of course I did a quickie purge each time before opening the BLUE knob. I had the car running. The first can went quick. I did the purge before the second can shot in. Looking at the gauges, at a 1200 rpm idle, the high side was hanging near 140-150 psi, the low side was in the 40s. The low side dropped to about 30-32, the high side to around 100. It was maybe 65 degrees here. The air coming through the vents is COLD. Just as the second can was almost done as evident by the low level of Freon in the sight glass, the engine lost spark and stalled. It has been 2 hours and I can't find the problem. The battery was low from the car sitting so much. I did use this:

...But no matter what I did, I can't get spark. The coil has power but nothing to the distributor. The plug to the ECM gets power in the same terminals in RUN as my Power Wagon.
The air conditioning seems to be working, I just need to fix this NO spark issue.

 

[Dennis H]

Operational success! But the Patient…

 

[Kern Dog]

It is a bit off topic but it does pertain...

I was frustrated. I ran a test light around the ignition parts, tested a couple different ECMs, tried another ignition switch with no change, still NO spark.
I walked away....
About 45 minutes to an hour later, I went back and sprayed ether down the carburetor and it started right up.
The A/C blew cold but this random "no spark" condition has creeped in numerous times since I converted to electronic ignition in 2001.