The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[33 IMP]

Has anybody documented how much lighter an aluminum radiator is, compared to a copper/brass of the same size?
Percentage might be a better measure than outrite poundage.
(Reason I ask: I have a giant copper/brass on my car that works great, but I think it came off a big block dually pickup, and it's heavy)

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Has anybody documented how much lighter an aluminum radiator is, compared to a copper/brass of the same size?
Percentage might be a better measure than outrite poundage.
(Reason I ask: I have a giant copper/brass on my car that works great, but I think it came off a big block dually pickup, and it's heavy)

Your dually truck rad may be even heavier than a stock rad for a car.
IIRC and only because I am not in front of my notes, the weight difference between a stock copper/brass rad was about 3 - 4 Lbs or so.
The right type aluminum rads are more about the size of the tubes and fins and the lighter weight is a plus. Some aluminum rads don't do a good job at all at cooling except drop weight.
Aluminum is arguably a better heat sinker, but so is copper.

 

[Mopar John]

The weight loss continues!
I went from a 42 LB battery to a 36 LB battery so -6lbs and now 2994!
That 2 at the beginning sounds better doesn't it?
Next was a lighter pinion yoke that saved 2 LBS rotating weight and now 2992!
But there is trouble brewing with the tower!

 

[fullmetaljacket]

The weight loss continues!
I went from a 42 LB battery to a 36 LB battery so -6lbs and now 2994!
That 2 at the beginning sounds better doesn't it?
Next was a lighter pinion yoke that saved 2 LBS rotating weight and now 2992!
But there is trouble brewing with the tower!

The tower of power or the watchtower?
I've got to put the car back on the scales later this Fall and see where it lays. My goal would be to land at an even 2800 Lbs. That way with pilot in the seat, it would be under 3000 Lbs.

 

[Badvert65]

When choosing a radiator, I like to go with the smallest capacity that will still adequately cool the engine. Excessive capacity would cool better but the additional weight of the fluid is right there at the very front of the car. Side note, I weighed various fluids and straight antifreeze weighs in at 9.8 pounds per gallon compared to straight water at 8 pounds per gallon.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

When choosing a radiator, I like to go with the smallest capacity that will still adequately cool the engine. Excessive capacity would cool better but the additional weight of the fluid is right there at the very front of the car. Side note, I weighed various fluids and straight antifreeze weighs in at 9.8 pounds per gallon compared to straight water at 8 pounds per gallon.

I wonder if distilled water weighs more or less compared to straight water. LOL. Now you've got me curious as to this question which is a very valid point. I run distilled water with a bottle of Wetter for the summer months. Fluids and their compositions and and consistency's do differ in weight.

I also run an old school total brass Robert Shaw thermostat that is heavy as sin, but has a much bigger cavity than any other stat for that matter. That thing opens \^/IDE.

As far as radiators, I've for many years now been running an all aluminum Afco nascar type radiator like the one below. Bigger cross section and thus, bigger radiator opening at the core. That enlarged core opening in itself saved a pound or less. This rad doesn't look stock, but the amount of cooling fins and the size of the tubes make a big difference. I'm sure that there are lighter versions out there nowadays, but will they cool just as much or better.
I'd love to see a cooling versus weight comparison report even though I suspect that most on here would sweat the details about cooling rather than less weight.

 

[Badvert65]

OK, according to the 'internet', a gallon of water weighs 8.33 pounds and a gallon of distilled water weighs 8.35 pounds.
I happen to have a gallon of distilled water handy. Near as I can get it, one gallon of tap water weighs 8.31 pounds. The exact same amount of distilled water weighs 8.40 pounds, essentially about 1.5 ounces different. Not really scientifically accurate, but apparently distilled water is just slightly heavier than tap water?

 

[Mopar John]

Light Weight Rear Brake Drums!
Back in my college days I worked at my brother in law's Shell Station.
There I was surrounded by everything automotive.
I learned who to run the tire machine and brake lathe!
Later in life I went to some equipment auctions and business liquidations.
I was able to buy my own tire machine and brake lathe.
So one day I was looking at a stack of old rear brake drums.
I wondered what would happen if I started cutting down the outside of the drum?
So I took a crappy looking drum as my experiment victim.
I started cutting when I had time and eventually got the whole outside surface smooth.
This turns out pretty good and I cut 2 more for the race car.
The 2 drums weighed 24LBS and after cutting they were down to 16LBS!
So another loss of 8LBS of rotating weight and 2984 in total!
I have attached a picture of one of my cut down rear drums.
MJ

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Light Weight Rear Brake Drums!
Back in my college days I worked at my brother in law's Shell Station.
There I was surrounded by everything automotive.
I learned who to run the tire machine and brake lathe!
Later in life I went to some equipment auctions and business liquidations.
I was able to buy my own tire machine and brake lathe.
So one day I was looking at a stack of old rear brake drums.
I wondered what would happen if I started cutting down the outside of the drum?
So I took a crappy looking drum as my experiment victim.
I started cutting when I had time and eventually got the whole outside surface smooth.
This turns out pretty good and I cut 2 more for the race car.
The 2 drums weighed 24LBS and after cutting they were down to 16LBS!
So another loss of 8LBS of rotating weight and 2984 in total!
I have attached a picture of one of my cut down rear drums.
MJ

View attachment 1716125

MJ. By way of your recent posts, it looks to be that you have already achieved a very low numbered static weight and you are teasing us with the incremental pound losses. When will it end? LOL. Are you at 2700 Lbs or so? Curious heads need to know.
I have done stuff since and waiting to do more stuff soon before rolling it on the scales again.
As far as drums, the GM aluminum drum idea of mine combined with Badvert's aluminum brake cylinder scheme might finally get a green light this coming winter. Phenomenal stuff.

 

[rmchrgr]

I understand the idea but just want to clarify the fact that you wouldn’t drive on the street with those turned drums unless you want instant brake fade. I actually hope they work OK when going rounds.

Besides the inner surface acting as the friction surface that the shoes press on, the drums themselves act as heat sinks requiring a minimum thickness of material to dissipate heat effectively.

In a disc/drum system, the front brakes handle most of the braking force but I’d still want to be 100% positive the brake system was not compromised in any way.

Plus, the weight is in the back so I’m not sure it’s really a detriment.

 

[Mopar John]

The drums were a race only application. Never had any issues with them even 1/4 mile tracks and going rounds. They are still on my buddies Challenger in the picture. I have moved on and will share that when I get to that. I have not made it into the 2700LB range at this time!

 

[fullmetaljacket]

The drums were a race only application. Never had any issues with them even 1/4 mile tracks and going rounds. They are still on my buddies Challenger in the picture. I have moved on and will share that when I get to that. I have not made it into the 2700LB range at this time!

I think rotating weight in the rear is of more concern, but a race only setup has more room for forgiving being that most tracks have long incremental shut down areas.
The one good thing about lightweight and super lightweight cars is that braking is less stressful.

 

[Mopar John]

I think rotating weight in the rear is of more concern, but a race only setup has more room for forgiving being that most tracks have long incremental shut down areas.
The one good thing about lightweight and super lightweight cars is that braking is less stressful.

Exactly!
If 11" brakes will stop a 3500-3600LB car then 10" should be more than enough on a 2900-3000LB car.
There is also a SAD trend of tracks only racing 1/8 mile now days!
This knocks the stopping speed way down!
In the 1/4 I'm up over 140MPH and in the 1/8 I'm barely over 110MPH!
MJ

 

[Mopar John]

The tower!
Weight loss is a funny thing and sometimes doesn't show up in a lower ET!
Usually an item of 10LBS or more especially rotating would show up.
The little stuff would pile up an show up with an all time best on a good weather day.
So I started to dip into the 9 second range.
At the time I was running at Route 66 Raceway in Joliet, Illinois.
This was a very well run track with tech inspection that was at the highest of standards.
There was no junk running in the lane next to you here!
What I was doing was running all out in the morning time trial to see where I was at.
Then I would make adjustments to run 10.00 or slower because that's all my NHRA ETI was good for.
Well, someone in the tower noticed the 9 second runs and had the guy passing out time slips direct me to the tech inspection area.
There I was notified that I would have to slow the GTX down or upgrade my safety equipment.
This included better SFI jacket, SFI pants, SFI gloves, SFI neck collar, SFI window net and
here is the killer a SFI 10 point roll cage!! WOW!
So I slowed the car down and started buying all the stuff need to pass the NHRA ETI down to 9 seconds flat!
MJ

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Exactly!
If 11" brakes will stop a 3500-3600LB car then 10" should be more than enough on a 2900-3000LB car.
There is also a SAD trend of tracks only racing 1/8 mile now days!
This knocks the stopping speed way down!
In the 1/4 I'm up over 140MPH and in the 1/8 I'm barely over 110MPH!
MJ

I think since cars have advanced in every corner of their performances and are now eclipsing 150 MPH and beyond, it is essential for safety margins to be considered by the outside governing bodies, but sadly so, shortening the distance to limit the full potential of a cars top speed makes for a mundane experience while muffling an individual/s developments. But I get both sides.

I have to admit, though just for a few seconds in motion, I have surpassed 130 in the quarter a few times and for a street car with modest safety features, it gets real spooky up there...... real quick. It's the place where I've learned to call "AMEN CORNER"
That being said, the drums are always being looked at and serviced if need be just for peace of mind. Lightweight discs have screeched across my mind quite a few times, but I believe my street behaviors are my best brakes.
I can't wait too BRAKE out with the aluminum rear brake drum idea.

 

[Badvert65]

I can't wait too BRAKE out with the aluminum rear brake drum idea.

Ok, I have the write up and I am just getting pictures together. You can chew on this to start:
Getting a pair of aluminum rear wheel cylinders is possible but you will need to get creative with some of the pieces.

Parts list:

For 13/16” bore wheel cylinders:

• (2) Dorman W37696 wheel cylinder
• (2) Dorman W120343 wheel cylinder
• (4) 6mm-1.0 metric bolt 10 mm in length

For ¾” wheel cylinders:

• (2) Dorman W37863 wheel cylinders
• (2) RAYBESTOS WC370178 wheel cylinder
• (2) Brake Line Adapter 3/16 SAE Inverted Flare 10mm x 1.0 Male Bubble
• (4) 6mm-1.0 metric bolt 10 mm in length

For those of you keeping track, here are the overall weight differences.

13/16” applications:

• Cast iron wheel cylinder:
  • 19.34 ounces (each)
• Aluminum wheel cylinder:
  • 8.74 ounces (each)
• Weight savings:
  • Each: 10.6 ounces
  • Total: 21.2 ounces (1.325 pounds)

¾” applications:

• Cast iron wheel cylinder:
  • 19.6 ounces (each)
• Aluminum wheel cylinder:
  • 7.43 ounces (each w/brass adapter)
• Weight savings:
  • Each: 12.17 ounces
  • Total: 24.34 ounces (1.52 pounds)

You can get a little extreme and save another ounce or two by using titanium bolts and bleeder screws (they are available).

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Cecil county is where I was called to the dean's office to be warned. Slow it down or you're quickly going to be expelled. LOL.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Ok, I have the write up and I am just getting pictures together. You can chew on this to start:
Getting a pair of aluminum rear wheel cylinders is possible but you will need to get creative with some of the pieces.

Parts list:

For 13/16” bore wheel cylinders:

• (2) Dorman W37696 wheel cylinder
• (2) Dorman W120343 wheel cylinder
• (4) 6mm-1.0 metric bolt 10 mm in length

For ¾” wheel cylinders:

• (2) Dorman W37863 wheel cylinders
• (2) RAYBESTOS WC370178 wheel cylinder
• (2) Brake Line Adapter 3/16 SAE Inverted Flare 10mm x 1.0 Male Bubble
• (4) 6mm-1.0 metric bolt 10 mm in length

For those of you keeping track, here are the overall weight differences.

13/16” applications:

• Cast iron wheel cylinder:
  • 19.34 ounces (each)
• Aluminum wheel cylinder:
  • 8.74 ounces (each)
• Weight savings:
  • Each: 10.6 ounces
  • Total: 21.2 ounces (1.325 pounds)

¾” applications:

• Cast iron wheel cylinder:
  • 19.6 ounces (each)
• Aluminum wheel cylinder:
  • 7.43 ounces (each w/brass adapter)
• Weight savings:
  • Each: 12.17 ounces
  • Total: 24.34 ounces (1.52 pounds)

You can get a little extreme and save another ounce or two by using titanium bolts and bleeder screws (they are available).

Wow. This is a good amount to munch on.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

To me, this photo says it all.
What's amazingly sticky to me in this picture is not the professor type guys nor the new race car on the block that they are wheelbarrowing, it's from those folks in the background. I can just read their stares: "Oh-oh, what are those Chrysler guys up to with that thing. The sport as we know it is about to change drastically"

It seems that the introduction of the Max effort cars with their overall light weight chassis evened out the playing fields by meeting the opposition with their aluminum front clips and advantageous rear overhangs head to head.

Aluminum was THE GREAT LIGHT HOPE being that these highland park pocket rockets were going to come hunting. White walls and all.

 

[RemCharger]