over-center spring

[superbeedave]

About 15 years ago I had mine off changing bushings and greasing up the pedals so when it came time to put the spring back on it took me a few days to figure
out how to get it back on. Then I figured it out and it took a whole 15 seconds to pop it back on. Anyone ever try the ole drum brake spring tool on it, it really works
great when you figure out to use it for this!

 

[matthon]

I went from a b&b with the overcenter spring to a centerforce diaphragm and kept the spring, in clear defiance of the instructions. I actually had an injury and thought it would help, and never revisited.

7 years later, I just pulled the clutch, went to an 18 spline, and it is in dam fine shape. I'm going to use the entire setup, from flywheel back, in another car.

So if the fork spring isn't enough to pull the bearing away from the pp, why do they mention removing the overcenter spring?

I've heard of putting the spring on a floor jack to open it up to put washers in, if installing for the first time.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I Don't see you issue Moparedtn !! Without the over-center spring the pedal will only come up as far as the pressure plate pushes it. The throwout bearing will stay in contact with the PP fingers - not something you want.

Actually since the hydraulic clutch slave cylinders have been designed to slide over the input shaft throw out bearings are always in contact, it's become the accepted norm...

If you think about it wheel bearings, alternator bearings, Etc all spin constantly with no ill effects...

 

[Daves69]

LMFAO !!! Talk is cheap ... show us how !!

YMMV, Some folks can hook the OC spring to the axle of their floor jack and the cup or under it to stretch them. Whatever way you attempt, be careful!
The OC spring assists in pedal depression for the B&B clutch setup. It also assists in pedal return to top once over center when adjusted properly. The fork to bell spring keeps the adjust linkage tight and the release bearing off the fingers (when adjusted properly).

 

[8formulas]

I went from a b&b with the overcenter spring to a centerforce diaphragm and kept the spring, in clear defiance of the instructions. I actually had an injury and thought it would help, and never revisited.

7 years later, I just pulled the clutch, went to an 18 spline, and it is in dam fine shape. I'm going to use the entire setup, from flywheel back, in another car.

So if the fork spring isn't enough to pull the bearing away from the pp, why do they mention removing the overcenter spring?

I've heard of putting the spring on a floor jack to open it up to put washers in, if installing for the first time.

I wish I kept my OC spring in. I took it out because that's what everyone said to do and I'm so sorry I took it out. It's a bitch to press the pedal now. Makes driving the car unenjoyable. I'm going to have to put the spring back in.

 

[gkent]

I wish I kept my OC spring in. I took it out because that's what everyone said to do and I'm so sorry I took it out. It's a bitch to press the pedal now. Makes driving the car unenjoyable. I'm going to have to put the spring back in.

I installed a Centerforce clutch and I'm thinking the same thing. I still have the spring and may put it back in but its a real hassle with everything all bolted back in the car. Years ago I had my buddy take it where he worked to stretch it and put in spacers. He told me it took TWO train wheels of weight to stretch the damn thing !!!

 

[Bird 426]

In the 5 years or so that I have been on FABO and FBBO, it absolutely amazes me that people do not understand what the 2 clutch linkage springs do. Seems to be about 60/40 wrong advice, the 60 towards the bad. Why the one person in in one hundred that goes against the tide and it actually works for him? Is also a mystery. Every week though, same ole same Ole. The thread goes on.

 

[8formulas]

In the 5 years or so that I have been on FABO and FBBO, it absolutely amazes me that people do not understand what the 2 clutch linkage springs do. Seems to be about 60/40 wrong advice, the 60 towards the bad. Why the one person in in one hundred that goes against the tide and it actually works for him? Is also a mystery. Every week though, same ole same Ole. The thread goes on.

I'd love to hear your advice.

 

[gkent]

I'd love to hear your advice.

No ****! He's basically saying over half of us are "wrong" yet provides absolutely ZERO input on the actual issue !!

Just to clarify, ANY "over center" spring applies force on both sides of center. Doesn't matter if the spring is on the cltch pedal or a garage door - purpose and function is the same. It our case it provides assistance to depress the clutch in as well to bring the pedal back up. The lower spring has the task of taking up slop to pull the release bearing away from the pressure plate. Done !!

 

[Bird 426]

Well, you have 3/4 of it right. I have 2 4-speed cars, neither one does the overcenter spring hold the clutch pedal up. I don't understand what is so difficult to understand, but here we are.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Well, you have 3/4 of it right. I have 2 4-speed cars, neither one does the overcenter spring hold the clutch pedal up. I don't understand what is so difficult to understand, but here we are.

You are wrong... The very name of the spring should tell you that it does by the design of the mechanism..

Disconnect the linkage, depending on where it is in it's travel the pedal is pulled either to the floor assisting in depressing the clutch or typically in the upper 2" or so of travel it will be pulled up to the upper travel limit...

 

[1 Wild R/T]

The reason people remove the over center spring is with a diaphragm pressure plate it taks so much less effort to release the clutch that the over center spring can cause the pedal to remain on the floor... Or at least to not fully engage...

 

[Bird 426]

Keep explaining, everyone is listening to you for the.......
I yield the floor to you all. No more comments from this end.
I'm out

 

[AR67GTX]

I’m sort of confused by this too I have to admit. I have a diapraghm clutch and it appears the overcenter spring is still up there in the pedal box. The pedal pressure is just fine - not too light and not too heavy. So what do I gain by removing it - a heavier pedal pressure? I don’t see that as a positive.

The only real problem I have is the pedal has a hitch point about 1 to 1-1/2” from top of pedal. If I don’t adjust the clutch to fully engage right at, or just above the hitch point, the pedal hangs there and I’m sure the fork stays lightly on the clutch fingers. I would like to gain a bit more free play than this allows. Maybe I just need to get a stronger fork return spring.

And I read about putting washers in between the coils with the pedal depressed (or is it pedal up? ) to simplify removal of the over-center spring but then someone will chime in and say that didn’t work for them. The drum brake spring tool is intriguing. Like to see a picture of that in position. But then if I remove it I get a heavier pedal pressure - or do I?

Not arguing with anyone. I just am having trouble computing.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I’m sort of confused by this too I have to admit. I have a diapraghm clutch and it appears the overcenter spring is still up there in the pedal box. The pedal pressure is just fine - not too light and not too heavy. So what do I gain by removing it - a heavier pedal pressure? I don’t see that as a positive.

The only real problem I have is the pedal has a hitch point about 1 to 1-1/2” from top of pedal. If I don’t adjust the clutch to fully engage right at, or just above the hitch point, the pedal hangs there and I’m sure the fork stays lightly on the clutch fingers. I would like to gain a bit more free play than this allows. Maybe I just need to get a stronger fork return spring.

And I read about putting washers in between the coils with the pedal depressed (or is it pedal up? ) to simplify removal of the over-center spring but then someone will chime in and say that didn’t work for them. The drum brake spring tool is intriguing. Like to see a picture of that in position. But then if I remove it I get a heavier pedal pressure - or do I?

Not arguing with anyone. I just am having trouble computing.

The "Hitch Point" is the point where the "Over Center" effect occurs... Some diaphragm clutches are fine with the O/C spring, some it causes big problems... Yes removal will give you a heavier pedal, but if leaving it causes the pedal to stick to the floor when attempting a WOT shift at 6000 rpms a heavier pedal is a very good trade-off...

If you were to reduce the free play you would find the pedal suddenly jumps to the top of it's travel...


If you add free play the pedal will likely stop and hang at the hitch point

If you remove the spring the pedal wouldn't have the hitch point & you could set free play as you like...

 

[8formulas]

The "Hitch Point" is the point where the "Over Center" effect occurs... Some diaphragm clutches are fine with the O/C spring, some it causes big problems... Yes removal will give you a heavier pedal, but if leaving it causes the pedal to stick to the floor when attempting a WOT shift at 6000 rpms a heavier pedal is a very good trade-off...

If you were to reduce the free play you would find the pedal suddenly jumps to the top of it's travel...


If you add free play the pedal will likely stop and hang at the hitch point

If you remove the spring the pedal wouldn't have the hitch point & you could set free play as you like...

AR67GTX - I couldn't have explained my old issue any better. You're experiencing EXACTLY what I did. Then I removed the OC spring and HOLY SH*T, the pedal is a bitch to press. Wished I left it in there.

1 Wild R/T - Very well explained. Thank you. When I read "Some diaphragm clutches are fine with the O/C spring" I thought, "ha, mine must be one of them". I'm going to put the spring back in next weekend. Also, no WOT shift at 6000 rpms for me. Not worth risking breakage of parts.

Thank you both.

Mike

 

[1 Wild R/T]

AR67GTX - I couldn't have explained my old issue any better. You're experiencing EXACTLY what I did. Then I removed the OC spring and HOLY SH*T, the pedal is a bitch to press. Wished I left it in there.

1 Wild R/T - Very well explained. Thank you. When I read "Some diaphragm clutches are fine with the O/C spring" I thought, "ha, mine must be one of them". I'm going to put the spring back in next weekend. Also, no WOT shift at 6000 rpms for me. Not worth risking breakage of parts.

Thank you both.

Mike

To stretch the spring prior to installing a floor jack is the tool of choice, hook one end on the cup, the other to the front axle, stretch it a little & stick in the washers......

Pedal on the floor is the shortest distance so the easiest position to attach the spring...

That "Hitch Point" is the longest distance & the best place to pull out the washers...

 

[8formulas]

Yes, I know about the floor jack trick. That seems to be the safest way. Thank you.

Mike

 

[AR67GTX]

The "Hitch Point" is the point where the "Over Center" effect occurs... Some diaphragm clutches are fine with the O/C spring, some it causes big problems... Yes removal will give you a heavier pedal, but if leaving it causes the pedal to stick to the floor when attempting a WOT shift at 6000 rpms a heavier pedal is a very good trade-off...

If you were to reduce the free play you would find the pedal suddenly jumps to the top of it's travel...


If you add free play the pedal will likely stop and hang at the hitch point

If you remove the spring the pedal wouldn't have the hitch point & you could set free play as you like...

Thanks for the straight forward response.