Fender Tag Replacement
- Thread starter DMateya
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What, exactly are these 'consequences'? Data Tag police? Lengthy pointless discussions on an internet forum? Facebook experts calling every tag posted, a 'fake'?
Really, I'm so tired of everyone telling other people what they can and can't do with their car. Doing tags, vins, stamping engines, etc, is pretty commonplace in pretty much every other manufacturer restoration world. Stuff gets damaged, rusted, lost, and that shouldn't be a taboo to want your car complete and how it was originally. If your car has had sheetmetal replaced, seat covers, door panels, tailights, internal engine parts, headlights, speedo and gauges redone, it's not original anymore! Mopar folks in general need to get off their high horses and let it go. Our hobby is already headed for extinction and the numbers police is helping to carry it along.
69coronet, sorry to single you out, I enjoy reading the information you post, but this is a touchy subject with me. I think it boils down to you'll make my car worth less! No it won't, time and declining interest will tho.
Ignore 90% of the responses here. Get one made that reflects what you think the car came from the factory as, paint it to match your car and move on. This bs all started 45 years ago when a guy from the great white north started publishing books on what the codes mean and how vitally important it is to have every number right. When I see a cool old mopar cruising down the road, I don't make him pull over so I can inspect his tag and block numbers. It's just a cool, old car that is great to see running around still.
Yes, replacing vin tags with reproduction. Now the body swap police will be in here lecturing on how that is different from replacing every piece of sheetmetal on a car. Remember, these were vin swapped on the assembly line if you look at it that way. They all had the same sheetmetal until the vins and tags were stamped or affixed. To me, it matters not. As long as it all matches up, I don't care and don't want to know. It'll ride and drive just fine.
YY1
Well-Known Member
Not to nit pick, but that is technically not true.
Torque boxes?
...and some times VIN swappers miss this.
I've seen 2 door Mopars with "41" VIN tags, and more than a few 23 body cars with 21 VIN tags and vice versa.
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I get that point. Yeah. But if you start splitting hairs like that, factory defects become something the owner has to argue and defend. ie, our beloved 66s, a lot of hemi cars came out without torque boxes, it was a new addition, union line workers, supplier issues, and a general lack of concern as it didn't affect the car driving off the end of the production line. Same with undercaoting, etc.
Works for me.
Does anyone know when during the manufacturing process the partial VIN were stamped onto the body parts?
1) detail part?
2) subassembly part?
3) major subassembly part?
4) complete shell just before installing the drivetrain?
1) detail part?
2) subassembly part?
3) major subassembly part?
4) complete shell just before installing the drivetrain?
Had to be before paint. So before drivetrain, but after complete assembly. Otherwise you'd see the normal screwups of mismatched vins as things get displaced in line. Jmho
If that man in question, who incidentally is despised by many, had not done what he did..... we could possibly have well over a hundred "Real" '71 HEMI Cuda Convertibles floating around....as an example.
Imagine pouring all your hard-earned cash into a car that turns out to be a fraud after you parted with your dough. How would you feel about that?
And what recourse would you have? Without a relatively reliable set of numbers and documentation for a range-band of car who suffered from a freak incident - really weird that story - we would have all sorts of fraud going on. I'm talking about the fire that magically killed off the records for arguably the most targeted range-band of cars produced - the cars that need verification can only be done now thanks to a few people who had the forethought to gather statistics and compile information for the enthusiast.
I'm not going to get into the why's and where's of Galen and his exorbitant fees......that is just a by-product of the capitalist system under which move of us live.
If those of you who are happy to have dodgy repro tags made then go for it. But when it turns into custard later on..... don't try and play the innocent.
69Coronetrt
Well-Known Member
Sanctimonious pain in the *** Data Tag police don't hurt the hobby. Their intent is to help people from getting ripped off by fake documentation justified and rationalized by others and made by tag makers that don't know how to make tags but do know how to take money from folks that do not know better.
Swapping /6 and 318's for 383/440s doesn't hurt the hobby. That's expected.
Building a car how you want doesn't hurt the hobby. That's always been cool.
What hurts the hobby is the acceptability of encouraging and making up critical provenance as to how a car was built at the factory.
Buying an orange 383-fourspeed Road Runner clone that was born a 318 automatic beige Satellite doesn't hurt the hobby. Faking a tag that shows the car was born an orange 383 four speed because someone was encouraged to get a tag to reflect how THEY built the car hurts the hobby.
Try explaining to someone that they just spent $300 on a bad tag because someone with good intentions recommended a tag maker that didn't know squat ripped them off. That's what hurts the hobby.
Try explaining to somone that just shelled out $$$$ from their retirement accounts on a dream car that they did not buy what they thought they bought and the documentation they have was faked because some good sole thought they knew better than the factory.
Changing a car doesn't hurt the hobby. Encouraging others and facilitating fake documentation hurts the hobby.
Tag Police don't rip off people nor defraud them.
Do not re-create a tag and keep that space open.
Really it’s your car, do what you want, just don’t sell it for what it ain’t.
Really it’s your car, do what you want, just don’t sell it for what it ain’t.
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It’s misrepresentation that hurts the hobby, as stated well by @69Coronetrt. I’ve sold six highly documented legitimate cars to sophisticated buyers. For what they paid, they deserved “real deal” provenance, and they got it.
The issue doesn’t arise with the guy who makes it “what he wants,” it’s the crook down the road who sells it for “what it isn’t.”
Dodge-Scatpack
Well-Known Member
It’s your car and you should do whatever makes you happy. Many people will have strong opinions in either direction. The only one that matters, is yours!
Here’s an option since your tag is missing.
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When I owned my numbers matching Hemi GTX, I removed the fender tag when I took it to shows, wasn’t willing to sit with the car all day and guard it.
When I got crap for not for not having the tag in place, I told them to kiss my a…, wish I’d had a KMA tag in place.
Well done...Tag thieves are a thing.... it happens.
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