Aftermarket head / roller rocker not mating together

[MaxWedgeWagon]

installing heads on a 440 ran into an issue or maybe not an issue depending on what you all say.

Heres what im working with.

My parts - trickflow 270 mw heads and prw roller rockers 1.6 stainless steel.

Issue ? - the heads rocker shaft pedestals are wider than the rocker shaft caps from prw. Causing the bottom half to be in spec of .015 free play. However on top by the caps there is a .03 or bigger gap (eyeballed the gap). See pictures for reference. Note the black shim is .03 thick.


Anyone else have a similar issue with other brands of both rockers and heads?

Whats the course of action? i really dont want to shave the pedestals down on my brand new heads.

This has to be a big concern. Curious to see what you all think.

 

[dodgeboy440]

installing heads on a 440 ran into an issue or maybe not an issue depending on what you all say.

Heres what im working with.

My parts - trickflow 270 mw heads and prw roller rockers 1.6 stainless steel.

Issue ? - the heads rocker shaft pedestals are wider than the rocker shaft caps from prw. Causing the bottom half to be in spec of .015 free play. However on top by the caps there is a .03 or bigger gap (eyeballed the gap). See pictures for reference. Note the black shim is .03 thick.


Anyone else have a similar issue with other brands of both rockers and heads?

Whats the course of action? i really dont want to shave the pedestals down on my brand new heads.

This has to be a big concern. Curious to see what you all think.

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What Has TrikFlo Said When You Called Them ????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[MaxWedgeWagon]

What Has TrikFlo Said When You Called Them ????????????????????????????????????????????

Closed, and I'm impatient ha… Figured i’d ask the experts here.

 

[RemCharger]

If I had 270 heads to play with I'd use the proper rocker assemblies. Prw sounds like a cutta corner.

 

[Geoff 2]

I would not worry about it. You have the thrust washer there to take up clearance. What I would be concerned with is that the roller tip is centered on the valve, & that may require r/shaft shims.

 

[MaxWedgeWagon]

Appreciate the responses.

1) i traded for 270 heads. Not something i could play with otherwise in my current stage of life.
2) while i was thinking the savings were a plus. I chose prw for bronze bushing, 1.6 ratio, and steel.
3) shaft shims on the way.
4) definitely not a race car

 

[ChargerST]

Have the 240 version of the heads and the same rockers. Used different hold-downs (B3RE) as I encountered the same issue. The bigger issue though was that the roller tips were not centered on the valve tips! I had to machine down the rocker bodies to properly center them (either the rocker bodies or the pedestals are too wide).

EDIT: I'm talking about the left/right alignment

 

[Doorkicker]

You have to get the right/correct hold downs. The shim will chew the alum pedestal. It will eventually cause pretty nasty problems - rocker misalignment, shaving in the oil, etc. 440 source's hold downs tend to work well with TF heads... 240's and 270's.

 

[gkent]

Its a long shot BUT ... there are two different widths of holddowns - 6 narrow ones and 4 wide ones. Are you using them in the correct spots ?

 

[MaxWedgeWagon]

Have the 240 version of the heads and the same rockers. Used different hold-downs (B3RE) as I encountered the same issue. The bigger issue though was that the roller tips were not centered on the valve tips! I had to machine down the rocker bodies to properly center them (either the rocker bodies or the pedestals are too wide).

Shims didn't work? Im assuming you needed to move it down to move the rocker on the valve the right way. Mine are sitting dead nuts in the center of the steam at closed.

 

[Doorkicker]

Side note... BTW.. 270 heads with 1:6 rockers... that will flow really nicely... curious as to what intake and cam you're running.

 

[Bird 426]

I think that my 190's on my Small block were the same, I haven't had any problems. Did use B3's geometry kit.

 

[ChargerST]

Shims didn't work? Im assuming you needed to move it down to move the rocker on the valve the right way. Mine are sitting dead nuts in the center of the steam at closed.

Was talking about the left/right alignment not the up/down. The rocker bodies hit the pedestal (no shim used) and were still off from the valve stem - no way I could have centered it without removing material somewhere (rocker body or pedestal).

 

[MaxWedgeWagon]

Alright get ready for a laugh...

My engine is an rv 440 that someone paid me $400 to take a car out of their yard. It had this cam in it allready with 452 heads. Engine was actually in a ziptie drags car - a 5 series BMW. Pistons are 0.120 in the hole. Compression with a .02 headgasket is Low 8's i think its 8.3:1. Been running okay for such garbage compression and too big of cam for that compression.

The cam is a 0.52 intake lift 0.54 exhuast 282/290 duration 110LSA. Hydrualic flat tappet. With new heads I should be 9:1 compression. While I have a spare block thats ready for a stroker I cannot afford it right now as I want to do it right with a a scat 511 kit with a hydrualic roller cam. But For science we are gonna slap some super nice heads on it and see what happens for the time being.

I am looking for a Torker intake to actually weld on extra material and then port it out to fit the MW heads. Currently I have a TM7 Intake I will make work for now. I want the torker for its good numbers but low height to fit under the hood.

The good news is Summit will return my PRW rockers as defective and let me trade out for some Hardlands. Trick flow said they are the right width for the heads and have better geometry for valve stem contact.

the bummer is i just overnighted pushrods... lessons learned.

 

[1KoolBee]

Stealth, Trick Flows,and Eddys all have different geometry than factory heads. AFAIK Harland Sharp is the only manufacturer that makes rockers specifically for those heads, not sure about pedestal width. I spent a lot of time and money screwing around with Crane Irons, Isky Irons, and Crane Aluminum rockers before biting the bullet and paying for the proper Harlands. Better value in the long run and you don’t have to pay double the money for “geometry kits” and custom machining. This:

Not this:

 

[MaxWedgeWagon]

DO harlands come with all the shims you need to get it right? do I need rocker shaft shims still?

 

[gkent]

You'll need shaft shims for the side-to-side clearance adjustments. a bunch of .015 shims are nice.

To get the geometry right for the valve tip contact patch you really need to talk to the guys at BR3. That said, I gotta believe most guys out there just make do with what they get. There's a good possibility the pushrods you ordered aren't going to be correct. You should use a "checker pushrod" to determine what you really need. You need about two threads of the adjuster showing and a pushrod that's + or - .010 is fine.

 

[MaxWedgeWagon]

Gotcha, I do have a pushrod tool.

Just got off the phone with T&D. They claim aluminum rockers will only last 15-20,000 miles of street driving before they fatigue and potentially have issues. T&D Steel rockers are $2900... OOFA.

I don't like the idea of Harlands given aluminum, needle rockers. and Price. I am contemplating keeping the PRWS or Going down to a 1.5 compcam magnum steel set.

But... As 1koolBee said Trickflow and Edelbrock heads are moved .04 inward. Requiring geometry correction. So any rocker i choose besides Harland or Customs T&D will not fit right, and will still have the wider pedastal issue. Trickflow even says compcams fit like dookie on their heads too.