Distributor-stay with points or go electronic?
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Unkle Krusty
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Even my 41 Ford tractor has electronic ignition.
I have Pertronix in the tractor, and my camper van.
Often we are a long way from anywhere. Tuktoyaktuk for instance. If the points fail, who am I gonna call?
In the US you guys are not far from an auto store, but still, I would go electronic.
I use a stock coil. Pertronix suggests a coil to match their ignition system.
There has been a lot of talk about the original design being the best. I agree somewhat, but believe there are improvements. Run a fibre gear on the camshaft, but until you get stranded on a beach miles from anywhere, your thoughts may change. I like to fix things at home, not far from home.
I have Pertronix in the tractor, and my camper van.
Often we are a long way from anywhere. Tuktoyaktuk for instance. If the points fail, who am I gonna call?
In the US you guys are not far from an auto store, but still, I would go electronic.
I use a stock coil. Pertronix suggests a coil to match their ignition system.
There has been a lot of talk about the original design being the best. I agree somewhat, but believe there are improvements. Run a fibre gear on the camshaft, but until you get stranded on a beach miles from anywhere, your thoughts may change. I like to fix things at home, not far from home.
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Geoff 2
Well-Known Member
..And HEI modules are super cheap. If you are worried about failure, you can piggy back a spare module one onto the operative module.
5 min to swap 4 wires if needed...
A no brainer....
5 min to swap 4 wires if needed...
A no brainer....
dvw
Well-Known Member
Standard points never bounce. And they never change gap resulting in a timing change. Unless you are in the real world.
Doug
Doug
No limit to the rpm
Belvedere408
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I switch all my old Mopars to electronic ignition. The points are thing of the past for me at 44 years old.
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I have had points in this car since I've owned it...
Just like Renton, nothing but the best for our cars!
Kidding. I convert most everything to electronic. I just haven't gotten around to doing the conversion yet. I have everything to make the switch.
For a pristine, valuable classic car that sees nothing more than 1/4 throttle, stuff like points ignition, stock torsion bars, bias ply tires and slippery vinyl seats are fine. That ain't me though, man...
Just like Renton, nothing but the best for our cars!
Kidding. I convert most everything to electronic. I just haven't gotten around to doing the conversion yet. I have everything to make the switch.
For a pristine, valuable classic car that sees nothing more than 1/4 throttle, stuff like points ignition, stock torsion bars, bias ply tires and slippery vinyl seats are fine. That ain't me though, man...
451Mopar
Well-Known Member
Electronic Ignition. If I'm going on a budget, the factory magnetic distributor is a good starting point, and then re-curve it for your engine combination, then use an HEI module on a heat sink (Cheap and simple.) I will use a chrysler type ECU if I need to, but they can sometimes be a problem as the case needs a good ground connection.
When I look for performance distributors, I look to see if they are easy to modify the advance curve. The Accel and Mallory distributors I had used used a "key" with different width / advance settings and you just loosen the advance screws, set the advance with the key and re-tighten the screws. The MSD uses a bushing stop that you replace.
I think it is easier to get replacement parts for the MSD, but they really jacked up the cost of those.
I haven't used Fire Core or Pertronix, so I don't know how they adjust the advance curve, but they seem to get good reviews.
On a Big Block, be careful with some of the bigger billet bodied distributors as they might hit some cylinder heads, and then you need to clearance the head for clearance.
Had to clearance a 440 source stealth head for a FAST dual-sync distributor for the sequential EFI setup.
Most of my cars use a CD Ignition box, with the square E-Core coils. The combination provides greater spark energy. As mentioned, peak output voltage is not the correct way to rate ignitions, spark duration and current is what you want, and all of those need to be balanced.
Need voltage to jump plug gap under cylinder pressure. More pressure and larger gaps take more voltage, but more voltage is also harder on the plug wires to contain.
Too much current can reduce plug and wire life.
Too long a duration can cause crossfire in the distributor cap. The "Multi Spark discharge" of CD boxes becomes a single discharge at higher RPM to prevent cross fire to the next cylinder. With the distributor, the ignition limitation is the cap to rotor geometry. That is why newer cars used multiple coils to get rid of the cap/rotor problem. The next smaller issue was long spark plug wires that cause electrical noise and the longer lengths added resistance to reduce noise, so now we have new cars with either coil near plug, or coil on plug.
When I look for performance distributors, I look to see if they are easy to modify the advance curve. The Accel and Mallory distributors I had used used a "key" with different width / advance settings and you just loosen the advance screws, set the advance with the key and re-tighten the screws. The MSD uses a bushing stop that you replace.
I think it is easier to get replacement parts for the MSD, but they really jacked up the cost of those.
I haven't used Fire Core or Pertronix, so I don't know how they adjust the advance curve, but they seem to get good reviews.
On a Big Block, be careful with some of the bigger billet bodied distributors as they might hit some cylinder heads, and then you need to clearance the head for clearance.
Had to clearance a 440 source stealth head for a FAST dual-sync distributor for the sequential EFI setup.
Most of my cars use a CD Ignition box, with the square E-Core coils. The combination provides greater spark energy. As mentioned, peak output voltage is not the correct way to rate ignitions, spark duration and current is what you want, and all of those need to be balanced.
Need voltage to jump plug gap under cylinder pressure. More pressure and larger gaps take more voltage, but more voltage is also harder on the plug wires to contain.
Too much current can reduce plug and wire life.
Too long a duration can cause crossfire in the distributor cap. The "Multi Spark discharge" of CD boxes becomes a single discharge at higher RPM to prevent cross fire to the next cylinder. With the distributor, the ignition limitation is the cap to rotor geometry. That is why newer cars used multiple coils to get rid of the cap/rotor problem. The next smaller issue was long spark plug wires that cause electrical noise and the longer lengths added resistance to reduce noise, so now we have new cars with either coil near plug, or coil on plug.
Geoff 2
Well-Known Member
The reason Multi spark was used at low rpms with CD ign is because the CD spark is about 1/10th the duration of an inductive ign spark. At low rpms, a long duration [ relatively ] spark is needed & a single CD spark could cause misfire. Hence, multi spark. Nothing to do with 'cross fire to the next cyl'.
451Mopar
Well-Known Member
Your right, each discharge is shorter, but normally the total energy per ignition event is greater with the multiple discharges.
The cap rotor still limits how many times or how long, the ignition discharges whether if it is CD or inductive. The next cylinder is at a lower pressure, and the present cylinder is under higher pressure so it will take less voltage to jump the gap to the next cylinder if the ignition tries to fire too long a duration where the rotor is going between contacts, also need to account for rotor phasing is usually not optimal.
On the other hand, the multi-ignition coil approach helps to fix the inductive ignition issue of recharge time at high RPM.
Just trying to say the cap/rotor design is a constraint. The larger cap/rotor designs give a better geometry with more area between the cap and rotor, and more distance between spark plug terminals.
Overall seems we agree. I might have other mistakes, it's too late at night, and I've had a few drinks ;)
The cap rotor still limits how many times or how long, the ignition discharges whether if it is CD or inductive. The next cylinder is at a lower pressure, and the present cylinder is under higher pressure so it will take less voltage to jump the gap to the next cylinder if the ignition tries to fire too long a duration where the rotor is going between contacts, also need to account for rotor phasing is usually not optimal.
On the other hand, the multi-ignition coil approach helps to fix the inductive ignition issue of recharge time at high RPM.
Just trying to say the cap/rotor design is a constraint. The larger cap/rotor designs give a better geometry with more area between the cap and rotor, and more distance between spark plug terminals.
Overall seems we agree. I might have other mistakes, it's too late at night, and I've had a few drinks ;)
Guess I’m just the old, odd man out on points. Except for my transistor ignition (TI) 66 Corvette, my other 3 cars all run dual points. Never let me down (can’t say as much for the TI). At least when the Chi-comms or aliens drop the EMP attack on us I’ll be able to make it to the deep woods.
Slipping727
Well-Known Member
Switched from MSD6 back to points a couple of years ago and have not noticed any difference.
jeff alder
Active Member
All my cars are commando 273 factory dual points. Except the Coronet R/T. Karrin keeps a modified emory board for her fingernails in her purse. One end does a quick clean up the other end sets the gaps. Done!
Smart move. Keep the MSD systems for the race cars. I have had no issues whatsoever with the stock single and dual point distributors and the Pertronix units. My Poly has a Chrysler electronic system that had issues when I bought the car. Clean up some wiring and the proper NOS (Filko brand) ECU from Halifaxhops and I was up and running again.
What? two modules stacked together? The top one would fail quickly without a heat sink wouldn't it?
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Once again as, unreferenced and undocumented .....straight out of 5th grade science library and THEORY ONLY....What happens in an actual engine under load is totally different. Your unsubstantiated quotes may impress the uneducated but are incorrect. REFERENCE YOUR QUOTES...CREDIT THE PERSON YOU PLAGERIZED.....
BOB RENTON
jeff alder
Active Member
You must be from Illinois. ADM, PPG, Cat or Mac's Tackle Box? Man could I go for a Krekel's cheeseburger right now!
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matthon
Well-Known Member
I have a rebuilt 318 poly with a 2 barrel.
MSD ready to run with an MSD coil.
Electronic voltage regulator.
Runs fantastic.
For my 58 Coronet I found it difficult to find the correct points and new ones that were not garbage. It still has points, no complaints.
It's akin to finding readily available 14" tires.
Although, I do prefer the MSD for efi and timing control.
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