440 Roller Rockers

[RemCharger]

Aren't you a ray of sunshine !!

And yet there are people who have been running Harland Sharps for years without incident !! On a proper hard chrome shaft the rollers and shaft will virtually last forever.

He wasn't talking about harland sharps. Those source rockers have crappy bearings that don't last long.

 

[QuickBpBp]

There is exactly ZERO chance I would buy/use/suggest those rockers.... Two bands of narrow rollers chewing on the rocker shafts never ends well.... If it were a rotating motion so the rollers were constantly moving/rotating it would be fine, but rocking back and forth causes the same roller to work on the same little bit of shaft till it starts eating into he shaft... Bad idea... You want a bronze bushing in that location...

Personally I'm not a big fan of rollers when running less that 600 lift, cause a quality set is expensive & for low lift it really isn't justified....

If you need them than don't buy a cheap set.. If the pin that is the roller shaft fails in any way ugly things can and do happen... I've seen the pin get loose and slide out, I've seen the pin break, I've seen the aluminum around the pin break...

In any of those scenarios you have a couple really bad things happening, the fork where the roller lived is now pushing on the valve spring retainer instead of the valve, how long till the keeper pop out and the valve drops? Sometimes your lucky and catch it before that happens... Sometimes you have very little left to save...

I'm sure the good brands fail, but I haven't seen many that failed.. The cheap ones? Just type roller rocker failure into google...

There is a reason so many old timers suggest ductile iron rockers...

I have also seen these come apart first-hand down in MD. A Guy last year had them laying there at Mason Dixon Dragway with shafts and 3 of them rockers came apart at the roller tip. He wanted $200 for EVERYTHING. He gave up on them after the first few failed and were replaced for free then more came apart. He just was tired of dealing with valve train issues. I don't know what his combo was but these didn't live on it... I was tempted when I saw the price for the spacers bolts and shafts but then heard the problems and saw the condition. So I walked away...

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Aren't you a ray of sunshine !!

And yet there are people who have been running Harland Sharps for years without incident !! On a proper hard chrome shaft the rollers and shaft will virtually last forever.

And yet where are those hard chromed shafts in his the parts list? Oh, missing... Turns out 440 Source doesn't offer hard chromed shafts.... Gotta buy those from someone else, like Harlan Sharp... For $300.... So much for that bargain set of rockers....

I have zero issues with Harlan Sharp stuff, it's good quality at a fair price... But the 440 Source roller stuff is a poor imitation... 440 Source sell plenty of decent stuff, I like their Ductile Iron rockers, But cheap rollers are a bad idea...

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Many guys who haven't been into this stuff for years think rockers aren't a big deal... That is a mistake... And it can bite you on the *** big time...

If you what to stay on the low $$$ end of things use simple rockers, (Ductile iron) if your ready to spend some $$$ Harlan are good, personally I like the stainless arms from Comp Cams cause they use a bronze bushing... Lotta guys run the PRW China knock offs, but they have gotten pricy since they have a pretty decent reputation.. When they first came out they didn't have a bronze bushing & they were seizing the rockers on the shafts... They fixed that...

 

[RR Fan Dan]

Aren't you a ray of sunshine !!

And yet there are people who have been running Harland Sharps for years without incident !! On a proper hard chrome shaft the rollers and shaft will virtually last forever.

I know right. I’m getting ready to use them on a complete 440 source engine build. My mechanic disagrees that they are junk, and I do too. It’s not like 440 source builds junk. Everything they build or sell they use on their own race cars. They do their own research and development on their own cars. If they ever do have a problem with their products they redesign the product to eliminate the problem and make it right with every customer who has bought the product. I’m pretty sure Brandon Nicholas knows what he’s doing when he builds a 440.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I know right. I’m getting ready to use them on a complete 440 source engine build. My mechanic disagrees that they are junk, and I do too. It’s not like 440 source builds junk. Everything they build or sell they use on their own race cars. They do their own research and development on their own cars. If they ever do have a problem with their products they redesign the product to eliminate the problem and make it right with every customer who has bought the product. I’m pretty sure Brandon Nicholas knows what he’s doing when he builds a 440.

You do what feels right to you... Good Luck... Might want to look for some hard chromed shafts.... And re-read post 22...

 

[RR Fan Dan]

You do what feels right to you... Good Luck... Might want to look for some hard chromed shafts.... And re-read post 22...

I’m not worried about their shaft or the rollers on the rocker arms eating into the shaft. In my opinion, they make quality parts. I understand you have a different opinion.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I’m not worried about their shaft or the rollers on the rocker arms eating into the shaft. In my opinion, they make quality parts. I understand you have a different opinion.

Actually you are wrong... 440 Source makes lots of good stuff... It just happens that the rockers you've chosen aren't one of the good products...

 

[RR Fan Dan]

Actually you are wrong... 440 Source makes lots of good stuff... It just happens that the rockers you've chosen aren't one of the good products...

Like I said you have your opinions.

 

[RemCharger]

Actually you are wrong... 440 Source makes lots of good stuff... It just happens that the rockers you've chosen aren't one of the good products...

Only do i know this because I had to build a motor for a friend that had those rockers did I find out about them. The bearing is the wrong one for the application. We flipped the shafts until he bought... another set of them.
This was a 10.90 trickflow 1/2 ton.
If there's an opinion to agree with, it's yours.

 

[RR Fan Dan]

Only do i know this because I had to build a motor for a friend that had those rockers did I find out about them. The bearing is the wrong one for the application. We flipped the shafts until he bought... another set of them.
This was a 10.90 trickflow 1/2 ton.
If there's an opinion to agree with, it's yours.

How long ago was that?

 

[RemCharger]

How long ago was that?

About 5 yrs ago. It was these ones.

 

[RemCharger]

It's just not enough bearing. Could you retrofit a better one? I think guys have gone down that rabbit hole. At that point I quit thinking about it.
But the ones I've seen weren't splitting and cracking at the roller axle. On a big cam. So that's good.

 

[gkent]

Regardless of what you think about any roller rocker, a roller bearing absolutely needs a hard chrome shaft - PARTICULARLY in a case such as this where there is a very small contact patch and significantly high load. Keep in mind that most bearings have an outer race. These do not, the shaft IS the race. It needs to be a material that's up to the task ... that is "hard chromed" !!!

 

[RR Fan Dan]

Regardless of what you think about any roller rocker, a roller bearing absolutely needs a hard chrome shaft - PARTICULARLY in a case such as this where there is a very small contact patch and significantly high load. Keep in mind that most bearings have an outer race. These do not, the shaft IS the race. It needs to be a material that's up to the task ... that is "hard chromed" !!!

How do you know the 440 shafts are not hardened? Their description doesn’t specify the shaft.

 

[gkent]

How do you know the 440 shafts are not hardened? Their description doesn’t specify the shaft.

Personally, I don't care if they are or aren't .. I run HS's on their hard chrome shafts. BUT, if I was going to use 440Source's roller rockers I'd sure as hell be asking them the question !!

 

[RR Fan Dan]

About 5 yrs ago. It was these ones.View attachment 1995087

The reason I asked how long ago is that if it was awhile ago, then maybe the problem has already been corrected by 440 source. All the research I have done has shown both good and bad, but the good far outweighs the bad. And as the old saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[RR Fan Dan]

Personally, I don't care if they are or aren't .. I run HS's on their hard chrome shafts. BUT, if I was going to use 440Source's roller rockers I'd sure as hell be asking them the question !!

I will be talking to them tomorrow.

 

[RemCharger]

The reason I asked how long ago is that if it was awhile ago, then maybe the problem has already been corrected by 440 source. All the research I have done has shown both good and bad, but the good far outweighs the bad. And as the old saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

If you're not putting alot of miles to it and low rpms, no winter condensation etc should work

Edit; long story short id rather have a set of non- roller bearing rockers for that application.otherwise there's 1. HS

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Looks like Dan has picked up on the fact we are just trying to help.. I'm not a 440 Source hater, I've spent a fair amount of money with them.. But some of their products have known issues...