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440 rebuild opinions

Polsky

Polsky

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Here it goes. I have been doing a ton of reading on this topic but would still like more insight. I am looking at doing a budget rebuild on a 1968 440. Currently, the engine runs rather well but is using some oil. I will break down what I am going with and what I need advice on. There are so many opinions out there but hopefully someone with a very similar build can let me know what they have, the positive and negatives, and time/dyno. To sweeten pot, one of my co workers bought a 2011 mustang with a tune, headers, catback exhaust, and is really talking down Ma Mopar:angryfire:. I would really like to blow his doors off but I also have a family so the budget is limited. Thanks in advance.

Block- 1968
heads- stock rebuilt 906 heads (This is what I have and cannot afford aluminum at this time)
Crank- stock forged. This will be turned as needed.
Rods- LY that will be reconditioned with ARP bolts.
Cam- I currently have a MP48, the old hemi grind. I like it but am sure their are better profiles out there to match my combination. Hydraulic suggestions only.
Stock push rods
Stock rockers
Intake is a single plane torker
Pistons- Looking at KB237 but open to suggestions. Must run on 91 octane.
Windage tray.
750 Holley vacuum secondary carb. Will hopefully update to a DP. Any suggestions?
1 7/8 headers
This is going in my 67RT(3800LBS), 3.55 gear, and rebuild hi stall from 1968 RR. The engine will be street balanced.
 
my dad had almost that same combo in his coronet but with slightly ported 906s and a a & a cross ram with magnum manifolds with the same pistons and 3.23 gears and 2500stall and bogged a little and ran 13:28 1/4 mile, don't know if that helped you or not but oh well, lol
 
the most economical way to get a mustangs goat is install a 3.91 or 4.10 pos with some nitto 555 street radials.you will blow the horse sheet off that muskrat. it will turn you car into a screamer
 
Try to get a set of the old Mopar Performance porting templates, and port a set of 906s, or 452 heads. Go with the bigger valves. Offset grind your crank .010 on the rod journals. Grind and polish stock rod beams. Spend the $ on pistons that give you a proper quench squish ..about .035" or so.( I used Arias lightweight racing pistons ). Have the block honed with a torque plate, use the best rings, half groove main bearings, and balance the assembly. .509 cam, edlebrock RPM manifold. You can build this for $2k, and it will be a very fun engine.
 
The old hemi grind cams work well with the factory heads. Just do the suggested bowl clean up and a good valve job. Deck the block to 10.7" and cut the heads to true them up. You can run a quality cast piston (KB 237's are fine) or a six pack replacement. Just watch the compression ratio. 9.5:1 to maybe 10:1 is max and I'd err closer to the 9.5:1 mark. Do not run high compression and try to band aid it by puling timing out of it. Always better to run the full 38 deg with the proper CR. I like to run the iron adjustable rockers and a heat treated 3/8" push rod. Having a stable valve train is important for making power. That cam will like a 3.91 gear and a 750 vac secondary Holley will work well. A free flowing dual plane or an old Torker will do nicely.
 
How many miles are on your present engine? What's causing the oil consumption? Is it smoking and if so, when? Have you done a compression and leak down test? Keep in mind that there really isn't any such thing as a budget build....unless you can do a lot of the work yourself. I've seen many people want to rebuild an engine just because the valve stem seals were dried up and if the short block is still in good shape, why dig into it. I've taken many engines with 75+k miles on them and just did a top end job and ended up with a good running engine again. The latest one was a 72 318 Demon with 115k miles on it. Pulled the heads and the cylinders looked great plus it had good compression etc so we stuck in a new cam, mildly ported heads, intake, headers, better ignition, threw in a gear and ran 13.50 with it.
 
No matter what you have to start with good machine work on good factory parts. Or if you've been around the block a few times and know what to look for, you can do what Cranky said. But you have to know exactly where to draw the line on what needs fixed. Heads take the most abuse so don't cut corners there. A hone and re-ring with new bearings can be just fine for a short block.
 
Keep that old Torker intake, they are actually a really good single plane for mild 440 street/strip cars.

I used to have a combo like the one you are wanting to build, only it was a 426 street wedge with 906 heads, old Torker, and the 3310 750 Holley. It ran 12.80s in my '72 Challenger.

If you can find one of those manifold shootouts articles onlne where they dyno every manifold under the sun, the old Torker actually does really well.
 
To add to what Meep said, once you pull the heads, you'll get an idea of how much wear the block might have based on the ridge at the top of the cylinders or if you see any scoring. How much oil pressure is it pulling? Check the bearings and seeing what shape the crank is in is good. Many just assume the short block needs everything when in fact, many times it doesn't need much. If the PO took care of it and gave it scheduled oil changes and didn't run the dog out of it, chances are it's in good shape.
 
TRAMO said:
the most economical way to get a mustangs goat is install a 3.91 or 4.10 pos with some nitto 555 street radials.you will blow the horse sheet off that muskrat. it will turn you car into a screamer
Click to expand...

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but reality says that ain't gonna happen.

If the Mustang has a quality tune, sticky tires, long tubes, and an auto (or the guy can shift) you'll need a recipe to run 11's.

...unless it's a V6, I guess, but that'll still be low 13s.

Good luck.
 
Herr_Poopschitz said:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but reality says that ain't gonna happen.

If the Mustang has a quality tune, sticky tires, long tubes, and an auto (or the guy can shift) you'll need a recipe to run 11's.

...unless it's a V6, I guess, but that'll still be low 13s.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Even a stock V6 Stang is in the mid/high 14's. This new junk is crazy!
 
This is were it gets tricky. I received the long block in tact. The motor oil and rest of the engine was real clean. When I checked the timing chain it had alot of play in it, almost 1/2". I installed a new timing chain, and carb. The engine fired up great and ran well. I have 80 psi pressure at a cold start and 45 psi at hot idle(1000 rpm). As I I am writing this it is now obvious that I do need a compression check. The car does not smoke at idle. There is a light blue smoke at full throttle but not horrible. The engine is using about Quart of 10-30 every 500 miles. The PCV valve is new but I will verify operation again. I am willing to do any checks based off recommendations. I just figured that with that much oil consumption with no leaks means the bottom end is in need of a rebuild. If not, The money will go for aluminum heads and a better valve train.

- - - Updated - - -

The more I read the more I better get used of the trash talk, for now....
 
If you want to teach the Mustangs a lesson get a turbo and start plumbing.

- - - Updated - - -

Cranky said:
To add to what Meep said, once you pull the heads, you'll get an idea of how much wear the block might have based on the ridge at the top of the cylinders or if you see any scoring. How much oil pressure is it pulling? Check the bearings and seeing what shape the crank is in is good. Many just assume the short block needs everything when in fact, many times it doesn't need much. If the PO took care of it and gave it scheduled oil changes and didn't run the dog out of it, chances are it's in good shape.
Click to expand...

I was known as king of the re-rings at my local shop. Hey, it works!
 
That's the funny thing. Oil pressure is 85 on a cold start and 45 at hot idle. I am using about 1 quart every 500 miles. A person would think that amount would be noticeable. I just pulled a valve cover off to try and inspect seals but I have the springs with the damper inside so it is hard to tell. The inside of the valve covers and the top of the heads are as clean as a whistle. This weekend I will do a compression test. When I installed the motor I put in a new pcv valve. Could a bad pcv valve or poor baffles do this?
 
I like the other have a opinion and first & foremost if you do rebuild. ( LIke said by cranky & other Good machine work on your block & heads is very important to start. )
.. :)
Here is a combo i have used for years on my cars and its always been a reliable setup with great power some may agree & some may not but its always worked great for me.

1. Good machine work on block & heads
2. I have always used a stock steel crank clean checked & polished
3. i have always used stock Rods just get good work done to them.
4. use good rod & main bolts ARP is my choice.
5. I am a big fan of the Old school grind of the mopar 292/509 cam great power awesome sound i have never been unhappy with it.
6. Plus good quality lifters. & a good set of 1.5 rocker arms
7. heads 906 are really good for a factory head. But better with big valves and maybe a little head work if you can. ( As a side note i have a very good set of 906 heads with big valves i would let go of just saying..
8.That torker intake is just fine & would work very well with the mopar 292/509 cam. I like the M-1 better but the torker is just fine.
9 A good set of headers is very important in my opinion.
10. A good stall is needed to in my opinion for this setup plus some better gears for the rear in my opinion 3:91 to 4:56 gears i have always ran 4:30 or 4:56 gears but again this was me and it was very fast for what it was some may agree or not its cool to listen to all.

I am just giving you my ideas of my motor & trans combos i have used in the past i am by no means a Expert in everything i just know what ran good for me i hope what i have said & other have said helped.
 
From your description, I would almost be willing to guarantee it's the valve seals. Check them first before starting an expensive rebuild.
 
Check that there is a baffle under the PCV. There should be, might have to make one if missing.
 
Does it put out a puff of blue smoke at startup? Sometimes a cold engine won't but if you shut down a warm engine and then start it up say 15 minutes later, do you see some? If so, that's usually a sign of bad valve stem seals. Years ago I had a 318 pickup with bad seals but it didn't do that and instead, it would engulf itself in smoke at a stop light after running for about 30 minutes lol. I mean this thing just covered itself if the wind was from behind it and it was so bad that you couldn't see anything!!
 
Determine where the oil consumption is going. Usually rings or valve guides. In some cases, an improperly baffled valve cover at the PCV valve is the culprit. Yours is more likely rings and guides. How many miles on the motor? You can re ring it, do a valve job and prob be ok. We did a 383 that ended up with .010" piston to wall clearance, and it worked fine. No smoke. Any way you do it, it will still smoke for awhile until the old oil coating is burnt off the inside of the ex pipes. Good luck.

- - - Updated - - -

I like the 509 cam, good intake, headers, 906 heads with larger valves and pocket porting. Proper ignition advance curve and good tuning helps alot.
 
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