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Oil Leak - 440 help

Took out both rear header bolts - added plumbers tape and permatex - those seem nice and dry.

Ordered a Wagner PCV setup and should be here tomorrow - vacuum gauge reads 15 at idle. Hoping that crankcase pressure eliminates the “seeping” oil leak I have. Also installed a Moroso Air/Oil Separator - just waiting for the Wagner to arrive to complete setup.

Thanks for the help everyone!

8980CDC3-3255-486D-A467-0038A63C34A0.jpeg
 
67SniperHockey said:
Took out both rear header bolts - added plumbers tape and permatex - those seem nice and dry.

Ordered a Wagner PCV setup and should be here tomorrow - vacuum gauge reads 15 at idle. Hoping that crankcase pressure eliminates the “seeping” oil leak I have. Also installed a Moroso Air/Oil Separator - just waiting for the Wagner to arrive to complete setup.

Thanks for the help everyone!

View attachment 1107852
Click to expand...
Sounds good, set it up accordingly, pcv !
 
New valve covers or should I rtv on top of cylinder head under gasket as well?

So frustrating. Went back to cork, rtv between cork gasket and valve cover - let it set up for 4 days - did not over torque. At my wits end - just want to take the kids for rides.

I am laying under the car - looking up at rear of passenger side cylinder head, tranny dipstick and header tube in the way - but I can see it is wet underneath the cork gasket.

At a loss. I either rtv the head, then gasket and rtv and cover and try that or try new cover - but oil is definitely seeping underneath the gasket. So to me - gasket to valve cover seems fine.

Any and all suggestions appreciated.
5B21D381-CE04-4E18-818C-917E2A8552D5.jpeg
 
67SniperHockey said:
New valve covers or should I rtv on top of cylinder head under gasket as well?

So frustrating. Went back to cork, rtv between cork gasket and valve cover - let it set up for 4 days - did not over torque. At my wits end - just want to take the kids for rides.

I am laying under the car - looking up at rear of passenger side cylinder head, tranny dipstick and header tube in the way - but I can see it is wet underneath the cork gasket.

At a loss. I either rtv the head, then gasket and rtv and cover and try that or try new cover - but oil is definitely seeping underneath the gasket. So to me - gasket to valve cover seems fine.

Any and all suggestions appreciated.
View attachment 1115328
Click to expand...
Have you installed Wagner valve yet and did you set it up yet and if you have any problems with that, they have good customer service, if so and still some leakage , next time you have VC off take a straight edge and place it on the ledge where VC sits and look for any irregularities, could also be a small casting flaw if this have always done this , or as long as you owned engine!
 
Jc cooper said:
Have you installed Wagner valve yet and did you set it up yet and if you have any problems with that, they have good customer service, if so and still some leakage , next time you have VC off take a straight edge and place it on the ledge where VC sits and look for any irregularities, could also be a small casting flaw if this have always done this , or as long as you owned engine!
Click to expand...

Thanks! Wagner is installed and set up correctly.

I took a straight edge to top of cylinder head and there was a little wobble to the straight edge. Also examined the valve cover itself, especially around the bolt holes and all seems good.

So do I rtv the top of the cylinder head to help with the irregularities?

Could also look at new heads - but that seems a bit extreme at this juncture, however I am getting frustrated enough to perhaps do so!
 
Don’t think rtv to the head ledge would be a good idea, did you see anything that would suggest a flaw in that ledge like small hole or anything, when did this begin? Have be careful with Rtv getting loose in engine and finding it’s way into oil passages and possibly starving the oil flow , could be catastrophic! Yes my opinion!
 
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Is this a recent engine build or high mileage, trying to understand when this issue started, is this very high performance or stock hp , sorry if I overlooked previous info but actually concerned for your problem, for I know how we are about our rides !
 
That rear passenger side head always seems to be a trouble area for oil leaks. There just isn't much material on the head where it needs to seal. I have had decent luck with these from Mr Gasket. I never put any sealer on the heads, But do use a very thin layer of that brown Permetex no hardening stuff on the cover side. Also when installing, get all the bolts stated and the push up on the cover before tightening down. This seems to get more gasket material on the thin head surface. Of course, if the head surface is not fairly flat, you will continue to struggle sealing it up.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174582499277
 
Yes that Mr Gasket set is one I went to and worked good for me , when compressed and heated seems to create its own bond , might help here , I know sum have even gone as far as machining the ledge to true up some .but requires removal of head , I keep wondering if there isn’t a very small irregular ledge problem here !
 
Make sure your valve cover bolts are the correct length and the threaded holes don't have any sealer/debris in them
 
Yes agree on the bolt holes , I bottom tapped mine and sprayed them to verify they were clean, also had much better luck with studs and nuts , used studs with Allen wrench holes to install and control pressure when tightening !
 
I kind of have the same problem, the stock heads don't have the best sealing surface, if I ever take my head's off again I'm definitely going to have that whole valve cover area machined just a little bit just enough to make it flat and seal properly, I wish I would have done it the first time.
I've used a variety of gaskets and sealers over the years and they work for a while, then rear left starts to leak again, just a pain in the ***.
 
Make sure it is the valve cover and not the oil sender unit. a leaky sender unit will have oil drip along the back of the block and be mistaken as a valve cover leak.
With the steel valve covers, make sure the valve cover rail is flat. If the bolt holes are dimpled in, take a hammer and flatten them back out.
Check the top of the cylinder head valve cover sealing area for casting issues like a chip out of the casting.
The valve covers (and oil pan) do not torque the bolts tight. Use the factory torque specs, and an inch/lb torque wrench.
Because the bolt torque is so low, I use blue loctite on the bolts so they don't back off.
Torque the bolts to spec multiple times. As the cork compresses the bolts torqued first can loose torque, so you may need to go around re-tightening the bolts 3 times. My 1969 FSM lists 40 in/lbs torque. That is like finger tight + 1/4 turn?
 
Jc cooper said:
Is this a recent engine build or high mileage, trying to understand when this issue started, is this very high performance or stock hp , sorry if I overlooked previous info but actually concerned for your problem, for I know how we are about our rides !
Click to expand...

Wish I could answer. I got the car last year in April. No details on motor - just got the “it has an aftermarket cam” talk from previous owner - no paperwork. So I’m working blind which also bothers me. I’ve done new plugs, wires, and coil - wiring is all new. But internals of motor I have no idea. Which is also why I am leaning towards doing more work so I know what I got :/

Regardless, this leak is driving me insane. Get comments on how cool the car is - well not that cool when it sits in the garage.
 
Update:

Took it to a shop - was tired of throwing $20/$30 at it time after time after time.

Picked it up they said they think they got it. They tried 3 times and 4 hours of labor.

I drive home (only 5 miles away) no smoke and all seems good. I’m in the house and shop calls and says there was oil where I was parked after I left. I go outside, and there is more oil - small puddle again - dripping from bottom of headers. Followed drips - dripping from that “block” piece on the side of the block, directly below #8 spark plug, header flange and bottom side of valve cover is all wet.

I’m using Amsoil ZRod 10w-40 - it’s around 90 degrees here, if that all matters.

This time though - it seems it’s not leaking while running and under pressure (M/E Wagner valve is hooked up) - but once I shut motor off and it sits that’s when it now leaks.

Consolation - since it doesn’t smoke under driving/pressurized situations it seems (for now - one test drive home from shop) I guess I can drive it. But anytime I park - it’s going to leak. Frustrating and another $250 down the drain.....
 
Might be a silly observation but when you had the covers off replacing the gaskets did you put a strait edge on the gasket surface?
Most of the factory covers I have seen over the years suffer from divots due to over tightening, got a leak, tighten it some more syndrome. I always hammer and dolly all the mounting holes and lay a strait edge on the covers to make sure. There are some thicker gaskets available for increased cover clearance in various materials including cork. I have used these with good success. The extra thickness provides some added crush to help with sealing. Might also want to consider using the triangular shaped washers from a small block mopar to help disperse and add to the clamping pressure.

Just another thought. If you had your valve covers powder coated and they coated the gasket surface they will be prone to leaks. The powder coated surface is slick enough to allow wicking especially with synthetic oil.
 
If you get the long valve cover bolts into where the short bolts go, the bolts will be tight but the seal won't.
 
67SniperHockey said:
.
I drive home, no smoke and all seems good.....oil... dripping from bottom of headers. Followed drips - dripping from that “block” piece on the side of the block, directly below #8 spark plug, header flange and bottom side of valve cover is all wet.
Click to expand...

If its leaking onto, and dripping from the headers, that means you have not driven it long enough to start smoking yet, but it will.

67SniperHockey said:
.
This time though - it seems it’s not leaking while running and under pressure (M/E Wagner valve is hooked up) - but once I shut motor off and it sits that’s when it now leaks.
Click to expand...

It is leaking while running/driving. You'll discover this to be true when you drive it more. The rear of the valve cover is always flooded with oil when the engine is running. Nothing different happens when the motor is turned off.

67SniperHockey said:
.
Consolation - since it doesn’t smoke under driving/pressurized situations it seems (for now - one test drive home from shop) I guess I can drive it. But anytime I park - it’s going to leak. Frustrating and another $250 down the drain.....
Click to expand...

Sorry, but no consolation - its leaking when driving.
 
BSB67 said:
If its leaking onto, and dripping from the headers, that means you have not driven it long enough to start smoking yet, but it will.



It is leaking while running/driving. You'll discover this to be true when you drive it more. The rear of the valve cover is always flooded with oil when the engine is running. Nothing different happens when the motor is turned off.



Sorry, but no consolation - its leaking when driving.
Click to expand...

I’ve had lots of run time and testing for it to start smoking the residual oil off the headers and reach operating temp.

In my experiences the last 2 months - the rate at which it is leaking while running is significantly less than what it was. Test drive after test drive has proven this. I also have to discern the difference between residual oil burning off the headers and “new” oil leaking.

While I obviously could not physically see the oil leaking while driving - this difference is the absence of smoke while driving now is significant. Previously - it took a 1/4 mile for smoke to be evident even inside the car, let alone outside the side of the hood and behind the car - now I drove 5 miles and nothing.

So sure - you may be right, it could still be leaking while driving - however not at the rate it was.

Just not sure if I should keep looking at this dumb gasket - or be looking at intake gasket, oil sending unit, rear main seal, etc. But every time I clean everything off and try to ascertain where the oil is coming from it seems to stem from the rear corner of the valve cover gasket.

Anyone know of good, thick steel valve covers?
 
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Anyone know of good, thick steel valve covers?[/QUOTE]
Old school cast aluminum are pretty stout. There are plenty around, relatively inexpensive. Much stronger rails than stamped steel.
 
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