Read post #11, he explains it better than I could. Have you noticed the temp new vehicles run at? Quite a bit warmer than we are comfortable with on our old cars.
160 thermostat why
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Ranger16
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Yes, some run at 210°, but that's a whole different discussion.
You said "Only thing a 160 will do is open quicker than a 180."
Cosgig said "once the thermostat opens, it’s job is done, it is only to allow the coolant to heat up quicker to get heat to the cab to warm its occupants quicker. It has nothing to do with how hot the engine runs."
If the only purpose of the thermostat is to bring the engine up to operating temperature quicker, that is, a 160 will warm the engine quicker than a 180, then a 180 will warm it quicker than a 190 and a 190 will warm it quicker than a 200 (the higher you go, the longer it takes), why would they even make higher temp thermostats? What's the purpose? Wouldn't you want to reach operating temperature as quick as possible? Why would anyone use a 180 or 190 (as recommended in the FSM)? If a thermostat does not regulate the engine temp as stated by Stant in post #11, and it's only purpose is to reach operating temperature, What would be the purpose of using a higher temp stat and delaying the time it takes to reach operating temperatures? Wouldn't we all want to run the lowest possible rated thermostat?
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I'm not going to sit and argue with you. Why don't you go buy a 160 and 180 stat along with a good aftermarket temp gauge. Try each of them for awhile on some 90 degree days and then report back. Believe me, I would love for you to come back and day that the 160 stat will hold your engine temps between 160 and 170 in a big block Mopar, but I don't think it will happen....
747mopar
Well-Known Member
I can't believe people are still arguing this
O.K all of you that think the thermostats job is only to initially warm up a car (which MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE AT ALL)... here's a test for you and Hopefully you live in a freezing cold climate. Take your thermostat out when it's freezing outside and tell me how good your heater works??? Done it and the heater SUCKS because the thermostat isn't there to MAINTAIN proper operating temperature.
I had a 180 thermostat in my Charger and it ran 180 degrees.. imagine that, switched to a 195 and I'll be damned if it didn't run 195? My car runs at 185 all day long with the 185 stat that's in it now but it recently took a **** and stuck open and whataya know... drumroll... It now runs at 170.. amazing ****!
This logic being discussed makes absolutely no sense... the motor will run where it runs.. REALLY? I can post this stuff all day if you like?
https://autochimps.com/car-thermostat/
O.K all of you that think the thermostats job is only to initially warm up a car (which MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE AT ALL)... here's a test for you and Hopefully you live in a freezing cold climate. Take your thermostat out when it's freezing outside and tell me how good your heater works??? Done it and the heater SUCKS because the thermostat isn't there to MAINTAIN proper operating temperature
.I had a 180 thermostat in my Charger and it ran 180 degrees.. imagine that, switched to a 195 and I'll be damned if it didn't run 195? My car runs at 185 all day long with the 185 stat that's in it now but it recently took a **** and stuck open and whataya know... drumroll... It now runs at 170.. amazing ****!
This logic being discussed makes absolutely no sense... the motor will run where it runs.. REALLY? I can post this stuff all day if you like?
https://autochimps.com/car-thermostat/
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747mopar
Well-Known Member
If the radiator and everything is up to the task absolutely. All to often cooling systems are just barely big enough to maintain proper operating temperatures at which point a 160 stat still produces 180-190 but only because the system isn't capable of getting the temps any lower.
Exactly Devin. And I totally agree with you that in cool ambient situations a lower temp thermostat will regulate better for your heater. Problem is that most of us are not driving these old cars around when a heater is necessary. But are instead dealing with big stroker motors dropped into cars that had cooling systems designed for much lower horsepower from the factory and driving them on 100 degree days. And they weren't even always up to that task when they were new. That's my point, a 160 stat is not going to get my 500 inch stroker running a 22 inch radiator to miraculasly stay between 160 and 170 on a hot day idling.
Ranger16
Well-Known Member
I have, with a 190 and a 180. The 190 ran 200-210. The 180 runs 180-190.
No one is debating that point. Let's face it, thermostats DO have their capabilities. They can't do the impossible.
You seem to have trouble discerning the difference between an argument and a discussion, so before this actually turns into an "argument", I'll just leave with one last comment. You never answered one of the questions I asked in post #22.
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Agree. We are talking about 2 different things. The op was asking about 160* stats. My mind just went to my opinion that these old suped up big blocks are not going to run in the 160's temp range on a hot day. And for that matter shouldn't anyway. I always seem to struggle with rising temps sitting at a stoplight in hot weather and not cruising temps.
Ranger16
Well-Known Member
I agree. As I thought about this after my last post it dawned on me that we got off on a tangent and are talking about the CAPABILITY of a given thermostat vs the PURPOSE of thermostats. As you said, "2 different things". I think we are now on the same frequency.
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451Mopar
Well-Known Member
Keeping the engine a little cooler helps prevent vapor lock, detonation and fuel boiling in the carb when using todays junk fuel
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A thermostats job is to maintain a minimum temperature.
SuperRatBastid
Member
This is the correct answer. And if your cooling system won’t maintain that temperature, fix your cooling system.
And, of course the answer here is air flow, not coolant flow. The whole system depends on the amount of air flow the radiator receives, and how to manage the air flow through the radiator. That’s why a shroud and a puller fan is vital to the coolant being cooled. A proper shroud and clutch fan is the best setup to getting as much air flow as possible. And, a lot of that had to do with the radiator. There needs to be a balance between how much fluid volume the radiator can handle, and how much air flow can pass through the system. If you add cores to the radiator, or larger cores, that doesn’t mean it will cool the fluid any faster. A puller fan like the stock units create a vacuum, pulling air through the radiator, and a shroud helps channel that air through the radiator. Once a vacuum has been established, the air in front of the radiator is pulled towards the vacuum, sort of straightening the air as it passes through the radiator. More obstruction creates less air flow. I think of it like a funnel, you can either pour liquid around the edge of the funnel, and swirl the funnel, and liquid will go right down the hole. Or, you can dump it in all at once, plug up the hole, and wait for the liquid to go down. Channeling the air through the radiator by pulling it is the most efficient method to maximize air flow. An electric pusher fan does not do this, and will push some air through the radiator, but the radiator will act like a block, and the fan can only force so much air through. More cores, the harder the fan has to push for less air flow. And, that is only where the fan is, the other part of the radiator has to rely on the ramming effect of driving to create wind, and still forcing air through the radiator. Air takes the path of least resistance, so where will the air go? That’s why temps go up when the car is stopped, no air flow.
But, I digress here, I know nothing, and YouTube videos are always right and have been for decades. So, what is the purpose of a 160 thermostat then, I ask?
But, I digress here, I know nothing, and YouTube videos are always right and have been for decades. So, what is the purpose of a 160 thermostat then, I ask?
mrhemi
Well-Known Member
Without re-opening this debate on thermostats, I do have a question though. High flow or standard flow rate thermostat? My 426 Hemi has had a 160 deg. stat in it since it was built and installed years ago. That was the wisdom back in the early 80's. Never had an issue. I am thinking of changing to a 180 deg. stat and the high flow option is there now. Opinions, experiences from the forum members?
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I'm 'my' experiences....my freakin Ferds (when I had them) liked to run on the cool side for the best ET's at the track. I'm talking 289's and not BB Ferds. Mopar BB's and SB's seem to like running at 180-190 for best ET. My 340 Cuda would ping at 190 though and wouldn't at 180 when the outside temps were around 95. In the winter time, it got a 190 stat though and it didn't ping in the winter time and made better and quicker heat for me feets. My diesel is another story. After changing out the stat several times, I gave up trying to get one to make it steady at 180-185. It would search from 140 to 180 constantly. It just won't do it so I block the radiator. With a 90% block it'll run 180-185 on a 70 degree day so long as it doesn't have to sit in traffic or red lights very long but the AC suffers in slow traffic. On hotter days, 75% block works well. The diesel is a 97 and the radiator in that thing is almost 42" wide. 22" radiators? Rather have a big un lol.
On another note, engine oil is designed (or was) to perform at it's best when the oil temp is at 180. I'm sure today's oil works well at higher temps....after all, it has to.
On another note, engine oil is designed (or was) to perform at it's best when the oil temp is at 180. I'm sure today's oil works well at higher temps....after all, it has to.
Demonic
Well-Known Member
The factory went to 190-192* thermostats in '69 for emissions reasons. See the text in a FSM from 69 and later. Too cold is bad for your ring seal, 160* stats, as noted above, is often used as a crutch for a cooling system with issues. 180 is a better minimum if there's no other issues.
The thermostat sets the minimum temperate an engine operate. Bear in mind the conditions that existed when you could buy a 10:1 Road Runner at Mr Norm's- you had much better gas - higher octane w lead. Now run that same 10:1 383 with 93 octane gas on a 95* summer day and it will likely ping. If the radiator is in good shape, and large enough, a 160* stat may or may not alleviate that, depending on jetting and timing and a host of other factors. But the root cause may remain.
My never-disassembled 69 383 4bbl ran hot years ago, mostly due to the radiator and block being somewhat fouled with Barr's Leak by the first owner. In my quest for running AC on a 100* day, I found a factory thermostat from 1967, part# 2128994. It's in the brass on the side. It looks like the Stewart/EMP/Robetshaw thermostat. I measured the diameter of the opening - 1 7/16", vs the diameter on the opening on a Stant "Superstat" - 1 1/8". Guess which one fixed my cooling issues? Flow is everything. The other thing I usually tell folks is your temp gauge does not show the coolant temp leaving the radiator, only exiting the head. It is difficult to gauge how well the radiator is working year 'round without another thermometer sometimes. Rule of thumb - the radiator is dirtier than you think. This can be true after a "weak" flushing on a heavily fouled radiator.
The thermostat sets the minimum temperate an engine operate. Bear in mind the conditions that existed when you could buy a 10:1 Road Runner at Mr Norm's- you had much better gas - higher octane w lead. Now run that same 10:1 383 with 93 octane gas on a 95* summer day and it will likely ping. If the radiator is in good shape, and large enough, a 160* stat may or may not alleviate that, depending on jetting and timing and a host of other factors. But the root cause may remain.
My never-disassembled 69 383 4bbl ran hot years ago, mostly due to the radiator and block being somewhat fouled with Barr's Leak by the first owner. In my quest for running AC on a 100* day, I found a factory thermostat from 1967, part# 2128994. It's in the brass on the side. It looks like the Stewart/EMP/Robetshaw thermostat. I measured the diameter of the opening - 1 7/16", vs the diameter on the opening on a Stant "Superstat" - 1 1/8". Guess which one fixed my cooling issues? Flow is everything. The other thing I usually tell folks is your temp gauge does not show the coolant temp leaving the radiator, only exiting the head. It is difficult to gauge how well the radiator is working year 'round without another thermometer sometimes. Rule of thumb - the radiator is dirtier than you think. This can be true after a "weak" flushing on a heavily fouled radiator.
diesel_lv
Well-Known Member
This is incorrect, if the temp "runs away", then there is a radiator or air flow problem. A 180 or 195 will go up to whatever the radiator and airflow allow and stabilize. If the cooling system stabilizes below those temps, then the thermostats closes and brings temps back up. If it stabilizes above those temps, then that's where it runs.
diesel_lv
Well-Known Member
My 160 stat held my 496 at 176 on the interstate in 125° temps w the a/c on at 3k rpm. That is due to a very efficient radiator, fan, water pump combo. I had to go to a 180 so it would run warmer. If a system wants to run at "X" temp without thermostat, it will run there if stat is lower. If it's below desired operating temps, a higher stat will close as it cools to bring temps back up.
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