gtxrt
Well-Known Member
was it a used intake ? if so was it ever milled
318 Woes
- Thread starter 79B100
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79B100
Member
Note, re: older thread in Ignition forum: I originally had a Holley Sniper on the engine, but found that there were just too many variables/failure points to chase with it, so I replaced it and the EFI fuel delivery system (inline pump, Edelbrock sump, pre and post filters, return line) with an Edelbrock 1406 carb (fuel tank->mechanical pump->filter->carb).
Since then, I have also replaced the oil catch can with a PCV-to-carb line and a breather cap.
I added a Ford-style starter solenoid, along with a 4-pin HEI relay. For now, I'm bypassing the NSS. A push-button actuates the starter, and a keyed ignition cylinder sends current to HEI+ via the relay. I put a 30A fuse close to the battery on the HEI feed. See HEI wiring diagram. I've checked voltage with a multimeter before and during crank. Full voltage before crank, and slight dip (~11.0v) during crank.
I'm using overhead console ignition controls instead of the column switch. Because of this, there is no auto ACC power kill during crank. The gauges remain on. I can bypass them and see if that slight difference makes a difference. Seems like the motor should be able to fire at slightly below max battery capacity, though, or else I'll be jumping it on a regular basis.
The distributor seats to the block, bare metal to metal. The block is already slightly oxidized there because of the humid weather. I can brush off the oxidation and see if that makes a difference, but I hope not because it's just going to oxidize again.
I'm going to add break-in oil through the spark plug bores today, readjust the valves, and reset timing to 10-degrees BTDC, being sure to remove any possible timing chain slack before another crank. It's a new chain, though, nice and tight, and a new harmonic balancer. I don't see how anything could have slipped.
Thanks for all the ideas so far.
Since then, I have also replaced the oil catch can with a PCV-to-carb line and a breather cap.
I added a Ford-style starter solenoid, along with a 4-pin HEI relay. For now, I'm bypassing the NSS. A push-button actuates the starter, and a keyed ignition cylinder sends current to HEI+ via the relay. I put a 30A fuse close to the battery on the HEI feed. See HEI wiring diagram. I've checked voltage with a multimeter before and during crank. Full voltage before crank, and slight dip (~11.0v) during crank.
I'm using overhead console ignition controls instead of the column switch. Because of this, there is no auto ACC power kill during crank. The gauges remain on. I can bypass them and see if that slight difference makes a difference. Seems like the motor should be able to fire at slightly below max battery capacity, though, or else I'll be jumping it on a regular basis.
The distributor seats to the block, bare metal to metal. The block is already slightly oxidized there because of the humid weather. I can brush off the oxidation and see if that makes a difference, but I hope not because it's just going to oxidize again.
I'm going to add break-in oil through the spark plug bores today, readjust the valves, and reset timing to 10-degrees BTDC, being sure to remove any possible timing chain slack before another crank. It's a new chain, though, nice and tight, and a new harmonic balancer. I don't see how anything could have slipped.
Thanks for all the ideas so far.
79B100
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Without reading all the chatter... are you getting coil feed in the "run" position ? ( do you know how to check for that ? )
padam
Well-Known Member
Verify tdc with mechanical stop?
At 150 psi you have plenty of cylinder pressure to make it fire.
I wouldn't put any oil down the cylinders that's not your issue.
So you're looking at fuel mixture and timing.
I agree you need to make sure the TDC mark on the balancer is correct, otherwise what you think is 10 deg. BTDC may not be accurate at all.
Perhaps you've already done this...
Also how is the quality of the spark blue and crisp? not lazy and yellow.
I wouldn't put any oil down the cylinders that's not your issue.
So you're looking at fuel mixture and timing.
I agree you need to make sure the TDC mark on the balancer is correct, otherwise what you think is 10 deg. BTDC may not be accurate at all.
Perhaps you've already done this...
Also how is the quality of the spark blue and crisp? not lazy and yellow.
79B100
Member
I hit the wall today. I squirted a bit of oil into the cylinders, then set the valves at zero lash (tighten adjuster screw while spinning pushrod; as soon as pushrod stops spinning, tighten another 3/4 revolution; tighten down nut while holding adjuster screw in place). I did so beginning at TDC on the compression stroke, and followed the Hughes diagram for intake and exhaust adjustments per cylinder at each quarter turn of the dampener.
When I cranked the starter, it was obvious the valves were way too tight. No signs of life, and the carb quickly started smoking. I pulled the #1 spark plug, and cranked it over one revolution. There was obviously no compression. I’m going to let everything cool off, then loosen the valves completely. Maybe my pushrod measurement was off. Maybe they’re too short and are somehow messing up the valve train geometry. I’m not sure if that makes sense. I’m spatial dyslexic, so all of these measurements and angles and such have been a real challenge.
I think I’ve reached the limit of my ability. Monday, I’m calling the machine shop that did my block to see if they’ll fix the assembly for me. Gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away and not cause catastrophic damage.
Thanks for the help, and I’ll provide an update once I actually know something.
This is my first project. Prior to it, I had no automotive experience. I think I’ve done some things well. I rebuilt the front and rear suspensions, replaced the driveshaft, put on new rotors and brakes, did a rear disc conversion, ran new brake lines, installed a new booster, master cylinder, and prop valve, bled the system, replaced the parking brake, new steering gear and pump, replaced the transmission, did a whole lot of work that no one will ever even see, and I did it by myself, in the driveway, in a place with extreme heat, thunderstorms, biting insects, and pit vipers. I spent a lot of money on parts, but none on labor. I bled a lot and got sick with heat exhaustion on a regular basis, until my whole body would cramp up and my blood pressure would bottom out. Thought I might actually die more than once. And all while the do-nothing neighbors scowled at me and demanded to know when the ugly van would be off the blocks because they were pretty sure I was violating city code by having it 20 feet from the street, tucked against my house, on blocks. I have a garage the size of a golf cart, no lift, no pneumatic tools, and the only mechanic I know is retired, dying of cancer, and not able to give much advice because of a recent stroke. So, while I will have to have the B100 towed to a shop at the 2-year mark, I will try not to feel like a failure. I just hope they can get it running, so I can finally take it for a drive.
When I cranked the starter, it was obvious the valves were way too tight. No signs of life, and the carb quickly started smoking. I pulled the #1 spark plug, and cranked it over one revolution. There was obviously no compression. I’m going to let everything cool off, then loosen the valves completely. Maybe my pushrod measurement was off. Maybe they’re too short and are somehow messing up the valve train geometry. I’m not sure if that makes sense. I’m spatial dyslexic, so all of these measurements and angles and such have been a real challenge.
I think I’ve reached the limit of my ability. Monday, I’m calling the machine shop that did my block to see if they’ll fix the assembly for me. Gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away and not cause catastrophic damage.
Thanks for the help, and I’ll provide an update once I actually know something.
This is my first project. Prior to it, I had no automotive experience. I think I’ve done some things well. I rebuilt the front and rear suspensions, replaced the driveshaft, put on new rotors and brakes, did a rear disc conversion, ran new brake lines, installed a new booster, master cylinder, and prop valve, bled the system, replaced the parking brake, new steering gear and pump, replaced the transmission, did a whole lot of work that no one will ever even see, and I did it by myself, in the driveway, in a place with extreme heat, thunderstorms, biting insects, and pit vipers. I spent a lot of money on parts, but none on labor. I bled a lot and got sick with heat exhaustion on a regular basis, until my whole body would cramp up and my blood pressure would bottom out. Thought I might actually die more than once. And all while the do-nothing neighbors scowled at me and demanded to know when the ugly van would be off the blocks because they were pretty sure I was violating city code by having it 20 feet from the street, tucked against my house, on blocks. I have a garage the size of a golf cart, no lift, no pneumatic tools, and the only mechanic I know is retired, dying of cancer, and not able to give much advice because of a recent stroke. So, while I will have to have the B100 towed to a shop at the 2-year mark, I will try not to feel like a failure. I just hope they can get it running, so I can finally take it for a drive.
padam
Well-Known Member
No shame in tagging up for help.
Sounds like you did a ton of work and learned a lot.
Hope you can get a good guy on it.
Let us know when it’s running.
Sounds like you did a ton of work and learned a lot.
Hope you can get a good guy on it.
Let us know when it’s running.
Rebelrouser
Well-Known Member
Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow all at the right time and it will run. Just a couple ideas, as mentioned the cranking compression is low. You can try a little light oil down the carb if you think the cylinder walls are washed. First when the dots are together on the timing gears that is number 6 ready to fire, not number 1. As you crank it over watch the rockers when the dots are together on the timing gears at TDC is the overlap period, exhaust should be closing and intake should be opening the rockers should be approximately the same height if one is noticeably more opened or closed your cam timing is off. 2nd the engine fires about 20 degrees advanced so if you set the distributor at TDC ignition timing is retarded. And as mentioned if it is a hydraulic cam set the valve lash to zero or slightly preloaded. Did you prime the engine for oil pressure? if the lifters don't have oil in them, and you have them lashed loose might not be opening the valves far enough to get air and fuel in the engine.
Maybe your distributor drive gear wasn't clocked correctly during engine assembly?
The slot in the dist/oil pump drive gear should point to the front left intake bolt when #1 is at TDC.
And double-check your ignition wires.
The slot in the dist/oil pump drive gear should point to the front left intake bolt when #1 is at TDC.
And double-check your ignition wires.
At this point I'd rip it out and throw it over the ravine out back....
rumblefish360
Well-Known Member
He needs a been there and done that guy at his place.
Geoff 2
Well-Known Member
If smoke came out of the carb, it means you had spark. But is it quality spark? And was there enough fuel in the carb? Do not rely on the dist flange making contact with the block for the ground return. Do what I said in post #18 to ensure a reliable grd connection. Grd is through the dist clamp legs contacting dist base, bolt head biting into clamp...& bolt threads in the block.
Nowhere have I seen confirmation that the carb is full of fuel, which I also outlined how to do in post #18.
You will find the problem by a process of elimination. Above eliminates two possibilities.
The position of #1 cyl on the dist cap can be any of the eight positions. You just need to make sure that the cyl that is firing has the plug lead going to that cyl.
To ensure that initial timing is set for a quick start: set timing mark on dampener to 20* [ yes 20, not less; can be adjusted later ] #1 cyl on compression stroke [ both valves closed, remove valve cover & check ]. Dist rotation is CW. Remove dist cap & rotor. The spark fires just as the trailing edge of the reluctor passes the pole piece. Rotate dist to get this position. Replace rotor; note which cap segment the rotor is pointing at. That is #1 cyl. Arrange plug lead positions accordingly.
Nowhere have I seen confirmation that the carb is full of fuel, which I also outlined how to do in post #18.
You will find the problem by a process of elimination. Above eliminates two possibilities.
The position of #1 cyl on the dist cap can be any of the eight positions. You just need to make sure that the cyl that is firing has the plug lead going to that cyl.
To ensure that initial timing is set for a quick start: set timing mark on dampener to 20* [ yes 20, not less; can be adjusted later ] #1 cyl on compression stroke [ both valves closed, remove valve cover & check ]. Dist rotation is CW. Remove dist cap & rotor. The spark fires just as the trailing edge of the reluctor passes the pole piece. Rotate dist to get this position. Replace rotor; note which cap segment the rotor is pointing at. That is #1 cyl. Arrange plug lead positions accordingly.
66 Sat
Well-Known Member
Mate, you should be proud of what you've achieved with no experience and crappy working conditions.
The fact that there's not even a splutter when you're cranking makes me think it's something simple, but you've also eliminated nearly everything so I reckon you're close to resolving this.
Make a long list of all the suggestions, tick them off if you've already done them, see what's left and check those things too.
Good luck.
The fact that there's not even a splutter when you're cranking makes me think it's something simple, but you've also eliminated nearly everything so I reckon you're close to resolving this.
Make a long list of all the suggestions, tick them off if you've already done them, see what's left and check those things too.
Good luck.
Geoff 2
Well-Known Member
Something I need to correct from post #18. Edel AFB carbs do not have vent tubes. But they do have vents. They are those funny shaped openings next to the piston covers. Use those to prime the carb as described in post #18.
dvw
Well-Known Member
Though this method of valve adjustment is more time consuming. It is also fool proof. valve positioning is E I I E E I I E. adjust th eexhaust valve when the intake starts to close. Adjust the intake when the exhaust starts to open. When using th espin method of the pushrod loosen first. While spining also move the pushrod up/down to feel play. Sometimes the plunger of the lifter will colapse and you can still rotate the push rod. Move the adjuster back and forth untill you get a good feel of where zero lash is. Then add your preload. Not sure which HEI unit you have but my bet is it should have 3 connections. Key on 12 V, Ground, and tach. If so you can remove it. Turn the key on with it connected and give it a good spin with your fingers. You should see a good spark. If there is no ground wire I would bolt one to the housing.
Doug
Doug
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