440 build

[BigFury66]

Just bought a 75 440. Motor is non bored and has new rings and been re-honed. Edelbrock RPM 440 intake manifold. Heads are 516 and so forth. So a few questions. I plan on replacing the heads not sure what or which brand, possible intake manifold swap and cam swap along with a Holley 850 DO and long tubes. I want to be able to have fun on the streets and produce enough vaccumm also. I'm posting a link to the cam specs also.
Dan

 

[wyrmrider]

what altitude are you at?
stock pistons you will be lucky if you have 7.5 compression
No way would I run the Erson cam- the one you show is for a 340 not 440
you would be better of with the Stock non HP cam till you get it sorted out
send it back and wait till you pick heads and know what your compression is
aluminum or iron heads?
I've built lots of late and motorhome 440's and there are several recent threads on this forum
what is your ride, gears, trans etc
516 heads were essentially 66 and earlier closed chamber heads
you can make them work but it takes a lot of work, new valves or some from a later 440 etc
where are your stock heads?
with the 516 heads you want a reverse deflector piston giving about 0 deck on the intake manifold side and essentially a dish on the spark plug side
9:1 and 256 duration @.006 with stock gears and converter
more compression requires more duration to prevent detonation but also lower than stock gears and a progressively looser converter

 

[wyrmrider]

take you dial calipers and let us know how far down your pistons are at TDC- do all four corners over the axis of the pin (front to back not side to side to avoid piston rock)
not knowing what your goals are run the manifold you have until you are forced. yelling and screaming. to make a change
The stock TQ is one of the best carbs you can run- learn how to tune them
Double pumper is most likely the last choice unless this is a trailer queen drag only project- gas mileage will suck big time

 

[BigFury66]

So I live in Colorado, the cam I posted a pic of was what's inside it now lol. This weekend I'll pull the heads off and look and see what style piston are inside. So as for now ill keep the 440 RPM manifold and i do plan on putting in a sure grip rear and 3:55. But over all do you guys think 1200.00 for the entire motor was a decent deal? The car is a 66 fury 3 with a 383 in her now. Transmission is 728 auto, with dual exhaust and stock rear end.. I plan on running aftermarket heads and might change out the pistons once I see what they are.

 

[Mike67]

Im not an engine builder by any stretch but the first question you have to ask is "what is your intended use/goal"?
Just assuming your building a nice cruiser w/ more pep I would look at the TrickFlow 240's (75cc) any mild street cam would be an improvement ( youll find many recommendations here) and since you are at altitude, i would look into converting to an EFI like a Sniper/Fitech. Youll be able to drive to the top of Pikes Peak or out in the grass lands and never have an issue being lean/rich.
The RPM intake is probably the best dual plane intake you can buy.
Check out @dvw low comp big block build here on the site...good stuff!

 

[BigFury66]

Ok I'll stay away from a Holley dp and go with something with vacuum secondary. I would like to make up to 500 tq and mid 400s Hp if possible. Going to be a street car but I want it to be driveable but very lopy if that's possible. Also will be running headers.

 

[wyrmrider]

keep narrowing down your goals realistically
High altitude, low compression add together to make driving compression worse.
lumpy and driveability do not go together with the above
lumpy and driveable requires high compression and good gas low gears loose converter- that's one direction I would not want to take with a heavy car
build a Torque Monster
So you have a complete 75 440
shoot us the casting number off the heads and numbers off the block
most every motor that vintage has had parts replaced
Is the 66 complete?
do check the deck height at all four corners first thing after taking the heads off (pull the drain plugs on the sides of the block first if there is any chance there is water in it)
tell us what kind of head gaskets you find steel shims or thick
Tell us if it has a nylon timing gear or aftermarket
Even if you are not going to reuse it keep the lifters in sorted order- like in a couple of marked egg cartons - it's a good habit- keep the pushrods same way- don't take the rocker arms off the shafts-you will want to inspect everything like a forensic pathologist in CSI Colorado
WHAT ALTITUDE?
BTW keep you eyes open at Pick a part for late 70's big block cars
Did you get the 75 motor from a yard?
you need to look for late torsion bars especially from a wagon
measure yours with your calipers
The largest that came in your car were .98 later cars could have 1.080
will make a BIG difference on those mountain roads
and no rush on the rear end change
rebuild a set of springs first
grab some from a wagon- yours have to be sagged
I don't want you to have all that hp only to swap ends going around a curve
or beat your suspension to death bottoming out
(been there done that)

 

[BigFury66]

So I bought it off one of the guys from the mopar forms off FB. He told me 516 heads freshed ( not sure his definition though), re-honed clyinders with new rings and so on. I do not I want some monster Tq bc that's what's going to get me moving. I want something that moves when you stomp on it you know. Not going to be a track car but sounds good and pulls hard does that make sense? As far as heads I have no problems running stock or aftermarket ones. I came from the world of sbc and these BB mopars are so different I feel. So I value everyone's input and would love some torker monster builds for sure if I understood and understand everyone correctly. This block does have two engine block mount setup. One up close the the oil filter and regular on the bottom. I will be going through it this weekend and I'll post photos along the way, and thanks to all and I'm a mile high as far as altitude goes. The 66 motor is complete as far as that goes. I know I can use the water pump and possibly the pulleys off her. I know the pistons on my 66 383 are flat tops.
Dan

 

[wyrmrider]

there are left and right exit to the radiator water pumps- use the one that match your radiator

 

[451Mopar]

Where do you live in Colorado?
There is alot of unknown questions about that engine?
If someone did a quick cylinder re-hone and new rings on the original pistons, you would want to check how well the piston rings seal.
From the one photo it looks like there are many aftermarket parts on the engine?
If the engine is not in the car, or run stand to do a compression check, it might be easier to do a leak-down test on the assembled engine just to check ring and valve sealing.
The 516 heads were the smaller combustion chamber heads with the small valves.
Might want to use Edelbrock E-Street heads or 440 Source Stealth heads?

 

[BigFury66]

I'm out in Aurora area "Southlands" kinda by Parker. Only thing I know about the motor is what I've posted. I figured it's worth taking the heads off seeing what kinda if piston and so forth. I'm going off the word of the seller and hoping the bottom end is in good shape. I do plan on changing out the heads i know 440 sources aren't to bad on a budget build and assume better than the 516 on the car. I'll keep the intake and figure out a cam that will help make the power and Tq needed to pull such a big car. I'll post photos this weekend.
Dan

 

[wyrmrider]

BVVC on any heads- most have to be gone through by a machine shop checking for stems being tight in the guides and concentricity of the valve job
If the heads on a 75 were changed to the earlier head it may have been to try and up the compression
those heads spec out at 74 cc but usually are 80 when you measure them- wo measure them
also if whoever did it used a thick gasket he did not end up increasing the compression much if any
big problem is if piston is way down in the bore- which you are going to measure also
on heads- let's get some opinions
most aftermarket heads increase flow at higher lifts which you are not going to have
big ports have less velocity than smaller ports
you want to avoid the deadly "BOSS 302" effect
headers make the biggest difference- and there do not go to 2" headers- in your case the smaller the better- finding ones for a c body will take some digging
better post in the C Body forum for chassis stuff and her for engine stuff

a quiz cams sorted by seat duration- middle column some have intake closed point all are using the same "SAE" method for duration
which one is going to build the most cylinder pressure?
Lift Seat .050
458 264 202

356 269 194 68ABDC

420 270 204

441 276 218

410 278 203

429 279 210 79 ABDC

430 284 212

434 284 206 74 ABDC

447 302 214

488 308 234

 

[33 IMP]

Excellent quiz, i sure don't have the answer. I would however choose the first cam,458 264 202. Good lift for short duration, good 050 duration for short advertised.

 

[BigFury66]

So here is the pic of the block number and the cam specs. The cam is the 2nd one down with the . 449 lift listed.

 

[BigFury66]

Man I wish I knew 1/4 of the knowledge you guys have. I just keep reading (bought two big block mopar building books).

 

[BigFury66]

Could I put together a decent build using this block with the 516 heads , bigger carb, headers and rear heard? I wouldn't mind keeping those heads but I'm very confused on compression. So if I understand correctly if I change to aftermarket aluminum heads I'll drop compression and that's due to the type of style flat top pistons I have? So could I have a fun running mopar with the current setup or is it wishful thinking . I've read some articles that people ran the purple mopar 590 cams with stock or ported 516 heads also?

 

[wyrmrider]

cam 449lift 292 214@50 looks like an Erson TQ20H but their catalog now lists it at 112 lobe center where you show 111
I show intake closing at 74 ABDC if some of the guys want to run the dynamic compression numbers after you give the piston depth and head cc details
chill till you do your inspection
for comparison that cam is very similar to the Magnum cam , 10 degrees shorter duration at .004 tappet lift
lift seat .050
449 292 214 Erson
447 302 214 Magnum
480 292 230 More modern Crane more lift and area at same as your duration
456 284 212 Crane about same lift and area 10 degrees less duration
430 284 212 Direct Connection "260" cam
431 283 206 Stock 440 non magnum cam
458 264 Jones low compression special
would allow the intake to close about 14 degrees earlier than the ERSON
or 19 degrees earlier than the Magnum cam
or 10 degrees earlier than the stock 440 cam
Not pushing Crane but easy to compare with ERSON
ps
the jones has 50 % more duration @.275 lift than the DC 260

 

[BigFury66]

Ok I'll be getting those results I hope tomorrow piston to deck height

 

[33 IMP]

Wyrmrider, you mean I got it right?!

 

[moper]

a quiz cams sorted by seat duration- middle column some have intake closed point all are using the same "SAE" method for duration
which one is going to build the most cylinder pressure?
Lift Seat .050
458 264 202

356 269 194 68ABDC

420 270 204

441 276 218

410 278 203

429 279 210 79 ABDC

430 284 212

434 284 206 74 ABDC

447 302 214

488 308 234

Not enough info supplied. Also not really relevant unless you run around at engine cranking rpm.