440 Rebuild

[Imndeep]

I am finally deciding on building my 1970 440 HP2 engine I've been sitting on for the last 27 years to drop in my '68 Runner. I've built several engines in my day but it's been awhile and technology has advanced over time. I have a buddy who swears by 440 source for Con Rods as I can't even recondition my stock 6 pack rods for what I can pick up the Platinum rods from 440 source for. So that's a given. My question is what's everyone using for Pistons? My buddy who races MoPars is telling me to stay away from KB Hypereutectic's, something about detonation issues. I have a stock stroke and stock 4.32 bore. Does anyone have any recommendations for pistons? My criteria is Forged Pistons standard bore and light as possible. I was looking at KB Iconic's they offer them in a standard bore and are Forged. Any comments welcome. Thanks.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Sealed Power cast unless your going racing
It works for me

 

[lewtot184]

i've used icon 836's with closed chamber heads and kb184's with open chamber iron heads. the 440 source platinum rods need a piston with a .990 pin. the 440 source i-beam rods will take a 1.094 pin or could be be bushed to .990 pin. and, as far as your buddy telling you to stay away from kb hypers because of detonation; find somebody else to talk to. any piston/head combo can be made to detonate. there are no detonation proof gasoline engines. some are just built more detonation resistant than others.

 

[69Bee]

I can rebuild your rods cheaper than the 440 Source rods, unless they are less than $200 for a set. KB pistons are good, as well as the Sealed Power cast or forged. The biggest thing is what you want to do with the motor. As far as the bore is concerned, you will not be putting new pistons in a 45 year old STD bore. You will need to bore it to 0.020" or 0.030" OS so the cylinder is straight and round.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Imndeep

I'd listen to lew !!

 

[CoronetDarter]

My engine builder swears by RaceTec/AutoTec pistons. The company was started by the same owner of JE Pistons. The set of forged pistons with moly rings was $610.

http://racetecpistons.com/pages/autotec.php

 

[furryfrog]

I can rebuild your rods cheaper than the 440 Source rods, unless they are less than $200 for a set. KB pistons are good, as well as the Sealed Power cast or forged. The biggest thing is what you want to do with the motor. As far as the bore is concerned, you will not be putting new pistons in a 45 year old STD bore. You will need to bore it to 0.020" or 0.030" OS so the cylinder is straight and round.

Yes, I would suggest you consider oversize as well, you will also have more piston choices to choose from. I would look at the bores or have your machine shop look at them before you order your pistons, Then you will know what size pistons you would need to get your bores cleaned up. After you get your pistons, then get the machine shop to bore your block with your piston to wall clearance in mind.

 

[Imndeep]

I can rebuild your rods cheaper than the 440 Source rods, unless they are less than $200 for a set. KB pistons are good, as well as the Sealed Power cast or forged. The biggest thing is what you want to do with the motor. As far as the bore is concerned, you will not be putting new pistons in a 45 year old STD bore. You will need to bore it to 0.020" or 0.030" OS so the cylinder is straight and round.

I agree with you in principle. Thing is I had my machinist check my bore for taper he honed it with torque plates installed and told me I didn't need to bore the block unless I wanted too. That was 27 years ago as well.

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I can rebuild your rods cheaper than the 440 Source rods, unless they are less than $200 for a set. KB pistons are good, as well as the Sealed Power cast or forged. The biggest thing is what you want to do with the motor. As far as the bore is concerned, you will not be putting new pistons in a 45 year old STD bore. You will need to bore it to 0.020" or 0.030" OS so the cylinder is straight and round.

$200 sounds really cheap for balancing, sizing, magnafluxing and shot peening my set of rods. One more draw back with old rods is god knows how many cycles are on them, and guaranteed I'd have to use mallory metal re balance my crank as it is an internally balanced forged crank that's in it at the moment.

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What I'm looking to do is make 500 to 550 HP with this engine. I remember an old Car Craft magazine article by Bill Bagshaw building a RB motor with those numbers.

 

[shag766]

I can rebuild your rods cheaper than the 440 Source rods, unless they are less than $200 for a set. KB pistons are good, as well as the Sealed Power cast or forged. The biggest thing is what you want to do with the motor. As far as the bore is concerned, you will not be putting new pistons in a 45 year old STD bore. You will need to bore it to 0.020" or 0.030" OS so the cylinder is straight and round.

X2

 

[Seventy]

I would look at total cost when it comes to Rotating assembly and heads...

For instance.
You steel crank, 6 pack rods, and 6 pack balancer are worth about $750 on the used market. I recently sold a blasted and painted 6 pack balancer for $375 on ebay alone, 6 pack rods for $265, and a steel crank needing to be turned for $300 locally...

so even if you start at $700, that is actually low, I have sold good steel cranks for $600 alone...

now add $300, to size rods, fit pistons, turn/polish crank then $300 to balance the assembly. so $600 at the machine shop + $700 for your sold parts = $1300

Now buy pistons for $450, rings for $70, bearings for $130, and $50 for rod bolts, thats $2000 plus all your leg work running around and dealing with suppliers and machine shops, ect...

Source will sell you a stroker rotating assembly and dampner for $2348, so for $400, you will get all brand new parts, all balanced, all ready to go, and another 50 inches, lol... to me a no brainer, especially when you will most likely spend more than what I quoted above on parts and machine work, and sell your parts for more than $700... IN most cases you break even...


Same thing goes for heads, you can buy their aluminum heads for $999, buy the time you restore a set of 906's you could about spend that, clean, mag, valve job, valves, springs, locks, retainers, port match, it adds up fast...


IMO, the best value in 440's is...

Find a good block that mags good, will take 30-40 and needs no decking or sleeves, source heads, stroker kit, and dampner (they will deal with you if you buy it all, just call and bargain a bit), then grab a fitech kit for $999, then new comp cams pushrods and timing set, felpro gasket set, melling pump driveshaft and HV oil pump, lunati voodo cam and lifter set, cam bearings, brass frz plugs= $500ish for a total of $4500 in parts...

So now you have an aluminum head, 500 cubic inch, fuel injected big block.. I only learned this by doing it the other way too many times, I have spent $900 on a set of stock 906's, just machine work, assembly, and parts on a set of cores I owned... I have spent money on getting rods sized and fitted with bolts and new pistons, cranks turned, chamf'd, and balanced, and then done the math afterwards and said "I could have built a stroker for less", also fuel injection, I bought $600 4bbls and $200 intakes in the past, when I could have had fuel injection for another $200!!! Just not smart money...


Build a nnice fuel injected stroker, only used parts I would use are the rocker shafts and rockers (good ones are easy to find) your block/caps, and tins... I Sometimes reuse headbolts and main bolts too depending on what the motor is going to be, 440's have so many head bolts its normally not an issue like on a small chevy, but for another few bucks, new bolts are nice too, you don't need high dollar head bolts or main bolts for a 500hp 440, stock replacements will work fine for ever...


I hope all my typing helps you, I see too many guys spend $6500 building a motor and end up with a stock iron headed, carbed, +30 440, I have a motor at the builders now, its almost exactly as I listed above..
Source heads, source stroker, used balancer, voodoo cam, fitech, etc, I added a new rtr msd, mancini rear main kit (I like them), summit/jegs windage tray, nice used tin and 5091 intake I blasted and coated, all new bolts, serpentine belt kit, alt, aluminum water pump, etc.. With machine work, assembly, and all the parts I spent under $6000(not counting the used parts I owned, which most people have from their old engine), thats a complete 500" FI aluminum headed engine!!!

Maybe something to think about...

 

[dvw]

Hypers make an excellent street piston. We've put many race laps on them as well. The wall clearance can be .002" w/o issue. This is nice for wear, oil consumption, and noise. Make sure the rings are gaped correctly. The piston heat will cause the rings to butt causing catastrophic damage. I've built 5 street motors with them. A few are well over 10 years old. All are still in use.
Doug