440 vs 413

[BamaCharger66]

Hello all. I have an opportunity to pick up either a 1965 Imperial 413 or a 1966 Imperial 440.
I want to put one of these in my 1966 Charger. I know that the 440 might be the better choice. But I think the fellow wants a little more for it.
After a little reading, I see that the HP difference is minimum (340 vs 350) in these applications. Hell, maybe I get both.
Thinking simple bolt on upgrades at least for now. New carb, intake, and MSD maybe. Just want a reliable car and a little power for fun.
Thoughts on which motor. And suggestions on what’s the best plug and play carb/intake. Thx!!

 

[R413]

They are about equal in stock form, how much power do you want to end up with?

Which one runs better? Do a compression test. Now which one is more complete with the pullies and brackets and hardware you will need. AC or non AC, etc.

Do you need to use the transmission Also? That 65 is a cable shift so it won't work in your 66 Charger.

 

[RemCharger]

I'd go 440, the small bore size is unfavorable and could be a valve obstruction in future upgrades.
Pistons a plenty with the 440.

 

[33 IMP]

Piston choice and availability is enough to pick the 440
413 pistons are hard to find, 99%cast, heavy, and expensive if you can find them.
The 440 you could refresh with new pistons, I would expect to do a re-ring only on the 413.

 

[69Bee]

Exactly...

413 $$$$$$
440 $$

Piston availability and price; all other parts are equal. If you intend on Custom Forged pistons, 413 = 440; same price for either as they are custom made.

 

[Don Frelier]

The original 383 4 barrel was rated at 325 HP and 425 ft/lbs of torque.
I don't see a big benefit to changing it for a 65 RB unless you plan to do a rebuild on the RB engine.

 

[BamaCharger66]

The original 383 4 barrel was rated at 325 HP and 425 ft/lbs of torque.
I don't see a big benefit to changing it for a 65 RB unless you plan to do a rebuild on the RB engine.

I have three 66/67 Chargers. The 383 will remain in the 66 that I have a thread on this forum. I trust that’s what you’re referring to?

 

[Don Frelier]

I have three 66/67 Chargers. The 383 will remain in the 66 that I have a thread on this forum. I trust that’s what you’re referring to?

Oh didn't know you had others.

 

[Dave6T4]

When I first built my 1964 Polara, I had access to a 1964 New Yorker 413 that had been rebuilt, but never used, to replace the Canadian 313 that was in it. Over the years, I picked up a set of used 426 Street Wedge pistons that were advertised in Hemmings. We drove the '64 Polara so much, that the old 413 was eventually getting blow-by. I bought a 440 from a friend, that had very low miles on it since a full rebuild. This engine is in my car now. At this same time, I was restoring a 1964 Polara 500 convertible. I had my old 1964 413 block bored out to fit the 426 pistons I already had, and assembled my engine as a 426 Street Wedge clone. This was all 30 some years ago, and chances of finding stuff (pistons) to rebuild a worn 413 have greatly decreased.

Red engine is 440 dressed up with 426 Street Wedge chrome valve covers and air cleaner. Big blocks of this era were red in Canada.
Turquoise engine is '64 413 poked to 426 with chrome Street Wedge valve covers and '62 300H intake and carbs.

 

[BamaCharger66]

Oh didn't know you had others.

Yup. A 66 with a 383. And a 66 and 67 both with completely locked up poly 318’s. That’s why I might get both… the 413 and 440.

 

[33 IMP]

Dave 6T4 Is right .
Both 413 pistons and 426 pistons (.0625 overbore on a 413 gets you to a standard 426 piston size) are available, but not growing on trees, like 440s. Theyre not particularly appealing (construction and compression ratio) and expensive.
A 440 would be easier to freshen correctly, I'd probably shortcut a 413 and use the pistons that came in it.
Other than that, not a damn thing wrong with a 413. Bore it a sixteenth, custom pistons and a 4.25 crank..... 482". Bazinga.

 

[Dutchrebuild]

I'd buy both engines...but I like a 413

 

[Dave6T4]

I don't know if you could use 383 pistons or not to make a 426 (same 4.250" bore) out of a 413. These pistons are a lot shorter, so you would need custom rods for sure. Likely some enterprising racer has done it before.

 

[mmissile]

All things being equal, your won't notice the difference...

 

[33 IMP]

I don't know if you could use 383 pistons or not to make a 426 (same 4.250" bore) out of a 413. These pistons are a lot shorter, so you would need custom rods for sure. Likely some enterprising racer has done it before.

That's an interesting thought, I'm gonna do some math, out of curiosity.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Hmmm..... both engines have small exhaust valve heads. Even on a stock'ish rebuild, I'd look for a newer engine. Otherwise, get the 66 440 (piston availability) if you care about having a 66 motor in your 66 Charger

 

[dvw]

If it's cheap and its running ? Why not. If it needs a rebuild. The factory heads are poor, cam is poor, manifolds are poor. Pistons are expensive. Nobody stocks cheap shelf pistons. Nothing the matter with the crank, rods, and block.
Doug

 

[Tony Tee]

Get both!

 

[33 IMP]

That's an interesting thought, I'm gonna do some math, out of curiosity.

@Dave6T4,413 block, blueprint deck height of 10.725, with trw 383 pistons, compression height 1.92, plus 413 3.75 crank and gen 2 Hemi rods (6.867), ends up around .060 in the hole. Small dome on the 383 pistons could get the compression where the customer might want it, or could deck the block to any deck height that may be wanted. It could WORK! (Young Frankenstein quote)




Only problem? Gotta buy Hemi rods, might as well buy custom pistons. And if you're gonna put custom pistons in it.... might as well put a stroker crank in it too.

 

[gtxrt]

Chrysler say's only 10 hp and 10 tq more in a 440 then a 413. if you do the math 27 more cubic inches would be closer to 17 hp and 23 tq more in a 440 especially with some mild performance upgrades. i have done both the 440 always felt a little stronger.