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5.7 Crate - which one...

The cheap way is to run a 392 cam in the 5.7
16+ trucks don't have ps to worry about and their intakes make the most tq.
 
MS3 can control the vvt and mds as well, why not on a street car?
 
I already had to work on it, had to fix the 1/2-20 threaded inserts for the front bumper on the passenger side, one was missing and one was trashed.

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My reply was in the vein of 'there are controllers out there that can utilize the technology of vvt and mds, why not take advantage of it'. MDS with the stick might be hard to tune to be smooth, but the vvt would be worth having on a street car.
 
furious70 said:
My reply was in the vein of 'there are controllers out there that can utilize the technology of vvt and mds, why not take advantage of it'. MDS with the stick might be hard to tune to be smooth, but the vvt would be worth having on a street car.
Click to expand...

Got it. I don't think I would say that I agree, if you can manage them then use them.
 
Furious70, I am with you on utilizing the MDS and VVT, when possible, but as I learned, performance cams manufactures, just drop the MDS, and use lock out or limiters on the VVT, on their camshafts.
When I was talking with a custom cam grinder for my 2016 R/T 5.7, I stressed how I wanted to keep the MDS, and he just could not or would not do it.
He also said the lifters for the MDS cylinders, cant handle the higher lift, so maybe the cost of engineering new lifters to handle the higher lift cams, plus the tune issues, just prevent anyone from doing this.
I think the only "performance" cam that works with the factory MDS/VVT is when you install a factory 6.4 cam in a 5.7.
For automatics, the torque convertor must go in and out of lock up, in conjunction with the activation and deactivation of the MDS system, so that can be a huge hurdle, when doing Hemi swaps,(some autos don't have lock up at all) .
I am not sure how they tune the manual cars for the torque spike of MDS going on and off?
I am not educated enough on the factory VVT system, but I could see how in theory, that may be worth the aftermarket camshaft guys to work with.
I guess time will tell.

At present time, I think, with a retro fit Hemi for the avg guy, it is much simpler to just drop the MDS and VVT, slap in a Comps 273H-13 cam and springs, and with some simple tuning, have an EFI 5.7 making about 447HP and 443 TQ.

Trying to come up with a combo that plays well with the MDS/VVT, and drops into vintage Mopars, may take more fiddling, and figuring them most people care to deal with.
I think, the goal for most people who want a modern gen 3 Hemi, in their classic Mopar is to just be able to drive the pants off the car, not have to tinker, and make very good power.
 
when the 392 cams were $68, I don't understand why anyone bought the 'level 1/2' aftermarket cams. Great cam and vvt/mds. Since Mopar raised the price I can see people shopping but still the 392 cam is cheap.
Yes you have to learn some additional software capabilities, but most of what you have to learn comes from having a non-stock cam of any type in the engine.
If you don't have lock up at all MDS should actually be simpler, the converter will absorb the 'shock' of coming in and out of v8 mode and you won't notice it as much. I agree, with a stick it's more complicated.
VVT should be of value for every street car. It's part of how that small 345" engine is so satisfying in a 4500lbs car.
 
Bad B-rad said:
Furious70, I am with you on utilizing the MDS and VVT, when possible, but as I learned, performance cams manufactures, just drop the MDS, and use lock out or limiters on the VVT, on their camshafts.
When I was talking with a custom cam grinder for my 2016 R/T 5.7, I stressed how I wanted to keep the MDS, and he just could not or would not do it.
He also said the lifters for the MDS cylinders, cant handle the higher lift, so maybe the cost of engineering new lifters to handle the higher lift cams, plus the tune issues, just prevent anyone from doing this.
I think the only "performance" cam that works with the factory MDS/VVT is when you install a factory 6.4 cam in a 5.7.
For automatics, the torque convertor must go in and out of lock up, in conjunction with the activation and deactivation of the MDS system, so that can be a huge hurdle, when doing Hemi swaps,(some autos don't have lock up at all) .
I am not sure how they tune the manual cars for the torque spike of MDS going on and off?
I am not educated enough on the factory VVT system, but I could see how in theory, that may be worth the aftermarket camshaft guys to work with.
I guess time will tell.

At present time, I think, with a retro fit Hemi for the avg guy, it is much simpler to just drop the MDS and VVT, slap in a Comps 273H-13 cam and springs, and with some simple tuning, have an EFI 5.7 making about 447HP and 443 TQ.

Trying to come up with a combo that plays well with the MDS/VVT, and drops into vintage Mopars, may take more fiddling, and figuring them most people care to deal with.
I think, the goal for most people who want a modern gen 3 Hemi, in their classic Mopar is to just be able to drive the pants off the car, not have to tinker, and make very good power.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with that last statement. I am not enamored enough with MDS or VVT to go out of my way to try and use either/both. As to the new cars, I don't think the manual cars have MDS, I know my 10 Challenger RT 6 spd doesn't seem to shut off any cylinders at any time, however my 14 2500 definitely does.
 
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My current dilemma is whether to buy a crate motor or a new replacement motor and then source all of the parts/pieces to get it together. The long block is very attractive; brand new engine, warranty, etc. but then I have to get an intake, TB, water pump, etc. But that does allow you to buy better items than stock or better fits the application (like oil pan).
 
I bought 1 take out for fabbing to get all those parts and for my 'real' engine I'll be buying another take out to get all those parts. It's cheaper by far vs chasing down all the little things. For what you're doing you'll be fine with a take out, most of them come with a short warranty, so have your game plan set ahead of time, stab it in, and go. If you need one for fab during your resto (like me), buy one with a hole in the block or rod knock (like I did).
 
furious70 said:
I bought 1 take out for fabbing to get all those parts and for my 'real' engine I'll be buying another take out to get all those parts. It's cheaper by far vs chasing down all the little things. For what you're doing you'll be fine with a take out, most of them come with a short warranty, so have your game plan set ahead of time, stab it in, and go. If you need one for fab during your resto (like me), buy one with a hole in the block or rod knock (like I did).
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan, thanks.
 
I think if the MONEY is available to you, and this is just my opinion, again if you have the funds, going with the Mopar Crate 392(or a take out from a wreck), and Mopar controller, would be the easiest quickest way to get it in your car and drive.
If you go 5.7, then you add a cam, and maybe valve springs, and a tune, you are very close to the price of a 6.4, crate or take out, and still have more power with the 6.4.
The Mopar or Holley controller is what it is, no matter if you go 5.7 or 6.4
I am in the broke a$$ bastard club, so as much as I want a 6.4, I had to get a running 5.7 and rebuild it. and go from there.

I was hot rodding my 2016 Charger 5.7, and I had it going real nice, then I drove my buddies 6.4 Charger with just a tune and headers, I felt like tossing in the towel, that 6.4 is a beast!!!

Now if you are like me and a 6.4 is just to much money, then the choice comes down to how much engine work can you do on your own, and how fast do you want this project finished?
Only you know how capable you are when it comes to engine work.
And as you said earlier, if you get long block you have to source other parts, BUT you are starting with a 0 mile BRAND NEW engine with warranty.

I would feel fairly comfortable getting a low miles take out from a salvage place, they almost always have warranty, and are all over e-bay.
There is even that one place that sells a running pallet!!
This is a Hellcat one, and crazy price but they have tons of other ones, this is just an example of the running pallet:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-2L-SUPER...253826?hash=item421735f5c2:g:6psAAOSw5iReog6l

I guess you also have to think about, if you want to have your car done now, or maybe take the winter, or a year to build it?
If you are gonna take your time, you may be able to get the long block, then source the parts from a place like LX forums, guys are always buying aftermarket intakes, or going with the 6.4 SRV (like me haha!) and you can snatch up almost brand new parts cheaply, over time.

One other thing to keep in mind, is I am fairly certain that the driver side exhaust is a bitch with the stock steering box, even with headers that are designed to fit, the gen3 in b body swap.
I think most guys go with the new borgeson small steering box, to fix that issue.

I am still looking into the pilot bushing for you, I have a few books on the gen3 Hemi, and I thing the info is in there.
 
Furious70, back in 2017 when I brought up the idea doing the 6.4 cam in my 5.7, everyone told me, I would lose way to much torque, and the 6.4 cam was only for dyno show, not for street, and I trusted them.'
Now that some time has past and guys have done this swap and have posted dyno results, I realize that they may have said that because they wanted to sell me an expensive custom cam, or maybe they didnt know.
I also have 3.90 rear in my 2016, so I am sure EVEN if I did lose some torque, with the 6.4 cam, I may not notice, as 1st gear is almost useless, I can start in 2nd and still smoke them.
I really should snatch up a 6.4 cam and look into if I need valve springs, but I got my 69 Charger, and my 77 Step side truck, taking all my extra cash right now.
Have you done the 6.4 cam in the 5.7?
I have the 6.4 exhaust manifolds( mid pipes/cats, and full exhaust system) and a 6.4 SRV intake manifold(using the 5.7 injectors, and MSD window switch to open and close the SRV)
on my 5.7 so I feel like the cam would work better on my engine then a stock 5.7.
 
All good points and something I will definitely take into consideration. I have found some 6.4 take outs that were in the $4K range which isn't bad. I would definitely opt for the running pallet as I would want to make sure it wasn't hurt.

I am sure there is going to be some fitment issues but I intend to mock this up several times, however i am going to continue some research until I have a solid plan.
 
MDS why not
My brother had a Cad V8-6-4 worked great and I'msure they have learned something in the last 40 years
VVT on the street, show me why not
 
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