5.7 Crate - which one...

[70chall440]

I am looking to source a 5.7 for my 71 Charger, I have looked at a lot of crate motors and reman motors. I am a bit leery of some of the reman engines but some offer multi year warranties. The problem with the reman engines is that they are long blocks so they don't have valve covers, timing cover, water pump, oil pan, etc. Sure I can buy all of that separately and probably get something far better, but one look at valve covers alone and I realize that it is not a inexpensive endeavor. I haven't checks local scrap yards yet but will. My questions are these;

1. what year range engine should I be looking for? I realize generally they are similar or the same, but there must be some differences.

2. anyone have any comments about any of the reman engines or companies out there?

I realize I will need a harness and controller which I know Mopar sells.

Appreciate any help

 

[Jerry Hall]

Look at this in search of a used engine.
https://www.allpar.com/mopar/new-mopar-hemi.html

 

[440 Charger]

I am looking to source a 5.7 for my 71 Charger, I have looked at a lot of crate motors and reman motors. I am a bit leery of some of the reman engines but some offer multi year warranties. The problem with the reman engines is that they are long blocks so they don't have valve covers, timing cover, water pump, oil pan, etc. Sure I can buy all of that separately and probably get something far better, but one look at valve covers alone and I realize that it is not a inexpensive endeavor. I haven't checks local scrap yards yet but will. My questions are these;

1. what year range engine should I be looking for? I realize generally they are similar or the same, but there must be some differences.

2. anyone have any comments about any of the reman engines or companies out there?

I realize I will need a harness and controller which I know Mopar sells.

Appreciate any help

You could learn to build it yourself.

 

[Mopar Hunter]

Blueprint Engines

https://blueprintengines.com/

 

[rolling_Thunder]

Basically - the 5.7L was either a 03-08 engine or a 09-present... the 09 became the "Eagle" name to reference the difference - it got the MDS and VCT system and better heads.

Mopar makes a controller and the aftermarket makes some nice things too - Holley just came out with the TerminatorX for the GenIII -- front runner stuff you can get from a dealership relatively affordable. Valve covers are really easy to find in my experience (except the 05 aluminum ones).

 

[Kern Dog]

MDS was integrated long before 2009.
I am looking to replace the 5.7 in my 2007 truck rather than buy another truck. I'm at 350,000 miles so you can take that as a testament to the longevity of these engines.
I thought that there are some differences between truck and car engines. Oil pan sumps, front accessory drives, oil filter locations, etc.
A rebuilder here in Sacramento has a provision that clearly requires that to maintain the warranty, a NEW intake manifold has to be used. Apparently, when these engines blow up, sometimes shrapnel finds its way up the intake tract and gets lodged or trapped in the passages and later can come loose and get sucked into the engine!

 

[Bad B-rad]

So the 2009 'eagle" heads are about 65CC smaller chamber heads vs the '04-08 85cc heads and they make more power and out flow the older 2004-2008 design and are on par or slightly better then the stock 6.1 hemi heads.
The issue is the 2009 and up engines have VVT camshafts, and so far aftermarket cams are not that plentiful, and require a VVT lock out feature.
Just things to think about.
If your not up on your gen 3 hemi stuff, or working with someone who is.

I took a running 2005 5.7, rebuilt the short block, and am going to add a cam and eagle heads.
The smaller chambers bump up compression to around 11.5 to 1 but thicker head gasket takes care of that.

I would recommend a NON VVT 5.7(2004-2008) and a comp cams cam, will put you 60-100HP over stock depending on what cam you pick
You will also need to ditch the MDS lifters, and may need larger valve springs.
Thats why for me, I did the short block first, because I cant afford to pay for a reman engine, then rip out the camshaft, lifters and valve springs .

Have you tried local Dodge dealer for a reman engine, or short block, I found they had fair priced short bocks and long blocks.
(here looks like $2700???)
https://www.factorychryslerparts.co...yDoECyUuNUVsQyMLsz3s_XOp96rN_ur4aApmyEALw_wcB

Rolling thunder is right on about the controller, for me the Holley is more suited as the Mopar one only has a stock ECU, so you would need a tune if you change any parts, and that MAY require an ecu un lock.

 

[Bad B-rad]

I am looking forward to your build, I really love the gen 3 Hemi, and when not constrained by warranty, and emission requirements, there is a ton of power there just waiting to be unlocked!!!
I mean just a cam swap adding 65-100HP!!

https://www.streetmusclemag.com/tech-stories/engine/hemi-horsepower-helper-100-horsepower-cam-swap/


https://www.hotrod.com/articles/gen-3-hemi-cam-change/

I am HUGELY interstead in seeing some 1/4 mile results for the 66-74 Mopars with just gen 3 swaps.
(still running 727's or 4 speed manuals)
The stock Gen 3 Hemi's horse power is better then the 440, but with 345 CI the torque is closer to a 383, so it will be great to see!!

 

[chtampa]

I used an ATK 2006 motor and happy with it.

 

[70chall440]

All great information and immensely helpful. While I own 3 5.7's (10 Challenger, 05 Durango, 14 2500 Ram), I have not built one or opened one up.

I am definitely going this route as I already have a number of "old school" cars which I don't drive currently (yes I know I should). In this case, my wife has told me to make this into a car that I will drive and since I really wanted to do a 5.7 conversion, here we are.

The fact that these engines make decent power stock, generally don't leak, are very reliable and last a very long time makes the conversion an easy decision. I am going to sell off the 71 383 and some other stuff I have and don't need which will help finance this effort.

 

[70chall440]

So the 2009 'eagle" heads are about 65CC smaller chamber heads vs the '04-08 85cc heads and they make more power and out flow the older 2004-2008 design and are on par or slightly better then the stock 6.1 hemi heads.
The issue is the 2009 and up engines have VVT camshafts, and so far aftermarket cams are not that plentiful, and require a VVT lock out feature.
Just things to think about.
If your not up on your gen 3 hemi stuff, or working with someone who is.

I took a running 2005 5.7, rebuilt the short block, and am going to add a cam and eagle heads.
The smaller chambers bump up compression to around 11.5 to 1 but thicker head gasket takes care of that.

I would recommend a NON VVT 5.7(2004-2008) and a comp cams cam, will put you 60-100HP over stock depending on what cam you pick
You will also need to ditch the MDS lifters, and may need larger valve springs.
Thats why for me, I did the short block first, because I cant afford to pay for a reman engine, then rip out the camshaft, lifters and valve springs .

Have you tried local Dodge dealer for a reman engine, or short block, I found they had fair priced short bocks and long blocks.
(here looks like $2700???)
https://www.factorychryslerparts.co...yDoECyUuNUVsQyMLsz3s_XOp96rN_ur4aApmyEALw_wcB

Rolling thunder is right on about the controller, for me the Holley is more suited as the Mopar one only has a stock ECU, so you would need a tune if you change any parts, and that MAY require an ecu un lock.

Excellent information. The link you provided is for a 2019 MDS VVT engine; how do you get rid of the VVT? I assume a cam/lifter swap. Also, will all of them take a pilot bushing for a manual trans (would think they would but..).

This is really doable and something I am pretty focused on, I could not rebuild the 383 for 3K and definitely would not get a warranty.

 

[70chall440]

Blueprint Engines

https://blueprintengines.com/

No 5.7's, already have a 416 stroker in my Cuda.

 

[chtampa]

My ATK motor came with a Competition Cams kit and gives me 350 hp. I used a truck front cover and did some light machine work (mill bit with an pilot bushing) to get a Sandin compressor to line up with the serpentine belt. This setup allowed me to use factory harnesses for accessories and maintain the cars locations for plumbing. The only difficult parts were a SB type radiator (reversed inlet/outlet). I love my setup so much that I smile when I look at the car.

 

[70chall440]

Look at this in search of a used engine.
https://www.allpar.com/mopar/new-mopar-hemi.html

Some great info there. thanks.

 

[70chall440]

My ATK motor came with a Competition Cams kit and gives me 350 hp. I used a truck front cover and did some light machine work (mill bit with an pilot bushing) to get a Sandin compressor to line up with the serpentine belt. This setup allowed me to use factory harnesses for accessories and maintain the cars locations for plumbing. The only difficult parts were a SB type radiator (reversed inlet/outlet). I love my setup so much that I smile when I look at the car.

I will definitely check them out. 350 hp? stock 5.7 comes in at 375-390. This is a factory AC car and normally I would ditch the AC and weld up the holes but I am thinking hard about putting AC on this car just because.

The reverse inlet/outlet of the radiator kind of sucks since I do have a new 3 core 26" radiator for it but it is not a huge obstacle.

 

[chtampa]

The kit gives another 50 HP, I assumed that the original motor HP was less, my mistake.

 

[70chall440]

The kit gives another 50 HP, I assumed that the original motor HP was less, my mistake.

I just looked at ATK's website, if you got the base non MDS engine, you should be making over 400 hp. That looks like a decent set up, not super inexpensive at $4795 given you need to source all of the other parts like valve covers, oil pan, etc. The factory engine at $2700 seems to be a better deal as it is brand new, but doesn't have the new cam (which seems to be what deactivates the MDS). But at $2700 I'd still be money ahead I think.

 

[Bad B-rad]

Excellent information. The link you provided is for a 2019 MDS VVT engine; how do you get rid of the the MDS and VVT? Also, will all of them take a pilot bushing for a manual trans (would think they would but..).

I do not know about the pilot bushing, but I can find out.
I link I posted I just typed on google search for 5.7 hemi long block from Dodge dealer.
If you bought that engine, on the link.
You get rid of the MDS, by swapping out the cam and lifters.(OR you can keep stock cam, and just swap the lifters to non MDS ones, they have kits for this)
To disable the VVT you can get a VVT lock out, it limits or disables the vvt feature, depending on what camshaft you install.
I am almost for sure the VVT cams and the Non VVT cams DO NOT interchange, due to difference in the front (nose) of the cam.
I can do some homework and look into some VVT cams.
99.95% of the aftermarket performance camshafts do away with the MDS system.

I have a 2016 VVT 5.7.
When I first got it in late 2016 I did a ton of mods, and I got to the point of getting a cam.
But I could not find a cam that let me kept the MDS.
Even a custom one. Keeping the MDS and a performance camshaft do not play well with each other.
The 2016 R/T Charger is really my family car, and MPG is not a HUGE issue, but I do like the feature. I have installed 3.90 rear from a stick Challenger, and on our trip to and from Carlisle I got 27.5 MPG.
I like that, 0-60 in 4.5(wife got best of 4.2) and runs 1/4 in high 12's. AND can get 27.5 MPG!!
I understand that in a vintage muscle car or a race car that MDS is not needed, so basically as long as you plan on a cam install, you are going to by default be eliminating the mds system.

 

[70chall440]

I do not know about the pilot bushing, but I can find out.
I link I posted I just typed on google search for 5.7 hemi long block from Dodge dealer.
If you bought that engine, on the link.
You get rid of the MDS, by swapping out the cam and lifters.(OR you can keep stock cam, and just swap the lifters to non MDS ones, they have kits for this)
To disable the VVT you can get a VVT lock out, it limits or disables the vvt feature, depending on what camshaft you install.
I am almost for sure the VVT cams and the Non VVT cams DO NOT interchange, due to difference in the front (nose) of the cam.
I can do some homework and look into some VVT cams.
99.95% of the aftermarket performance camshafts do away with the MDS system.

I have a 2016 VVT 5.7.
When I first got it in late 2016 I did a ton of mods, and I got to the point of getting a cam.
But I could not find a cam that let me kept the MDS.
Even a custom one. Keeping the MDS and a performance camshaft do not play well with each other.
The 2016 R/T Charger is really my family car, and MPG is not a HUGE issue, but I do like the feature. I have installed 3.90 rear from a stick Challenger, and on our trip to and from Carlisle I got 27.5 MPG.
I like that, 0-60 in 4.5(wife got best of 4.2) and runs 1/4 in high 12's. AND can get 27.5 MPG!!
I understand that in a vintage muscle car or a race car that MDS is not needed, so basically as long as you plan on a cam install, you are going to by default be eliminating the mds system.

Very helpful information. I don't think I would want the MDS or VVT in this car. I am definitely interested in knowing if they all have a provision for a pilot bushing since this is going to be a stick car (A833). I love the 5.7 in my 2010 Challenger RT and the one in my 14 2500, absolutely no lack of power; mileage isn't great (especially in the truck) but it is what it is.

 

[67MPRFAN]

What are you guys talking about when referring to MDS system on gen 3's