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69 Super Bee EFI Conversion Plan

I have the older MSD Atomic system on my Vette with the supplied external pump running PWM, it’s been pretty trouble free. I never set up the timing control but maybe one day for science to see if it’s worth it.
 
Mine drove great down the road without timing control,
BUT return to idle during various situations was iffy.
Sometimes the IAC would kick in slowly and kind of stick there and then the car wanted to pull through the back wall of my barn. NOT GOOD.

Timing control fixed that and allowed me to tune it much better, I don't think you'll be completely happy without it. There's not really a good reason to do half of it.

The plan to start it up without doing the timing control is fine.
But have a plan to convert after you get the fuel/system and rest of the install sorted.
 
Timing on the laptop with my classic FAST is wonderful. I highly encourage anyone to switch. It's actually one of the downsides to the sniper 2 right now I think, no control for Mopar even with their dizzy.
 
Don Frelier said:
Mine drove great down the road without timing control,
BUT return to idle during various situations was iffy.
Sometimes the IAC would kick in slowly and kind of stick there and then the car wanted to pull through the back wall of my barn. NOT GOOD.

Timing control fixed that and allowed me to tune it much better, I don't think you'll be completely happy without it. There's not really a good reason to do half of it.

The plan to start it up without doing the timing control is fine.
But have a plan to convert after you get the fuel/system and rest of the install sorted.
Click to expand...
Thats a helpful note, because I have noticed the idle issues you mention. I mostly have it tuned with the settings and the adjustments at the TB but its still not what as smooth as it could be. Might be time to re-read the instructions and figure out how to lock the mechanical advance etc on the HEI distributor.
 
The cost of the Holley drop in fuel pump is expensive because the hydromat pickup sock is expensive.
A Spectra Premium CR9CFI (In tank 255 lph welbro pump fuel tank) is $420.91 on Amazon. Amazon.com: Spectra Premium (CR9CFI) Classic Injection Fuel Tank : Automotive
Looks like they have one listed that is mis-labeled as CR9DFI for $349.00 ? Amazon.com: Spectra Premium (CR9DFI) Classic Injection Fuel Tank : Automotive
Link to spectra premium in case the Amazon links don't work: CR9CFI

The only thing about these EFI pumps that go through the sending unit hole is there is no room to install a larger pump.

If you building something with more than 600 HP, your better off starting with a Tanks Inc tank.

If you are not using the ballast resistor, you can connect the EFI key signal / power to both the blue and brown wires on the ballast resistor together for power when cranking and running.
If you need to run the ballast resistor. You can do the same, connecting the EFI power to both the brown wire through a diode, and the blue wire through a diode.

With the spectra fuel tank, it has 3/8" barb supply line connection like a stock tank, and 5/16" (8mm) barb line fitting for the return.
I ran factory hard lines, but needed to enlarge the pass through hole in the torsen bar crossmember for both lines to fit through.
Running the hard lines is a pain if the tank and axle are installed. Run the lines before installing the tank and axle will make it much easier.
 
451Mopar said:
The cost of the Holley drop in fuel pump is expensive because the hydromat pickup sock is expensive.
A Spectra Premium CR9CFI (In tank 255 lph welbro pump fuel tank) is $420.91 on Amazon. Amazon.com: Spectra Premium (CR9CFI) Classic Injection Fuel Tank : Automotive
Looks like they have one listed that is mis-labeled as CR9DFI for $349.00 ? Amazon.com: Spectra Premium (CR9DFI) Classic Injection Fuel Tank : Automotive
Link to spectra premium in case the Amazon links don't work: CR9CFI

The only thing about these EFI pumps that go through the sending unit hole is there is no room to install a larger pump.

If you building something with more than 600 HP, your better off starting with a Tanks Inc tank.

If you are not using the ballast resistor, you can connect the EFI key signal / power to both the blue and brown wires on the ballast resistor together for power when cranking and running.
If you need to run the ballast resistor. You can do the same, connecting the EFI power to both the brown wire through a diode, and the blue wire through a diode.

With the spectra fuel tank, it has 3/8" barb supply line connection like a stock tank, and 5/16" (8mm) barb line fitting for the return.
I ran factory hard lines, but needed to enlarge the pass through hole in the torsen bar crossmember for both lines to fit through.
Running the hard lines is a pain if the tank and axle are installed. Run the lines before installing the tank and axle will make it much easier.
Click to expand...
Man I'm so confused about the ballast resistor. My car has had full MSD (coil, box, wires, dizzy) forever and the ballast has always been there. Very conflicting info online on whether it should be there, even from MSD. Should I bypass it? Seems like it hasn't hurt to keep it on. If I don't bypass it, do you mean the blue wire that is already connected to the brown wire? Or the other side of the ballast? See my awesome snip below

1766089711063.png
 
Don Frelier said:
Mine drove great down the road without timing control,
BUT return to idle during various situations was iffy.
Sometimes the IAC would kick in slowly and kind of stick there and then the car wanted to pull through the back wall of my barn. NOT GOOD.

Timing control fixed that and allowed me to tune it much better, I don't think you'll be completely happy without it. There's not really a good reason to do half of it.

The plan to start it up without doing the timing control is fine.
But have a plan to convert after you get the fuel/system and rest of the install sorted.
Click to expand...

I have an MSD distributor, would I need to get a "phasable" distributor to control the timing with the EFI?
 
DevEngNerd said:
I have an MSD distributor, would I need to get a "phasable" distributor to control the timing with the EFI?
Click to expand...
It needs to be "Locked Out" meaning no mechanical or centrifigal advance from within the distributor.
Then the EFI has a special mode where it allows/asks you to time the engine (I think at 20 deg. BTDC or somewhere in that range). Then the system knows where the baseline timing is and adjusts the spark timing according to your setup you've configured.
 
Where does the MSD box get the power now? The EFI usually need 12 Volts of clean power. I use a relay for that, triggered by the blue and brown combined. That way a connection to the starter relay (large stud) will provide the power thru the relay to the EFI controller.
Mike
 
You have to mechanically set the dizzy to more advance than you ever want to run. Mine is set to 60*btdc and then the ECU technically retards it to where the maps says it should be
 
OneWheelPeel said:
I have the older MSD Atomic system on my Vette with the supplied external pump running PWM, it’s been pretty trouble free. I never set up the timing control but maybe one day for science to see if it’s worth it.
Click to expand...
It's worth it. It's half or more the reason to switch to EFI, especially a system like atomic or sniper that's really TBI.
furious70 said:
Timing on the laptop with my classic FAST is wonderful. I highly encourage anyone to switch. It's actually one of the downsides to the sniper 2 right now I think, no control for Mopar even with their dizzy.
Click to expand...
I don't think the Sniper is smart enough to know what make of engine it's installed on. The guts of the MSD/Holley distributors are all the same and based on a Duraspark pickup. It doesn't know what make of distributor body it's stuffed in...
 
Ok, let me phrase another way, they only support hyper spark and I've not looked to see if there's a bbm hyper spark dizzy. Other efi support a variety of triggers
 
DevEngNerd said:
Man I'm so confused about the ballast resistor. My car has had full MSD (coil, box, wires, dizzy) forever and the ballast has always been there. Very conflicting info online on whether it should be there, even from MSD. Should I bypass it? Seems like it hasn't hurt to keep it on. If I don't bypass it, do you mean the blue wire that is already connected to the brown wire? Or the other side of the ballast? See my awesome snip below

View attachment 1964487
Click to expand...

Alot depends on how much voltage the MSD or EFI needs to see to know the key is on.
Because the Ballast resistor is fairly low resistance, when cranking the car and all the power is on the coil side of the ballast resistor, current will back-flow through the ballast resistor to the ignition 1 side. It will just be a lower voltage depending on the loads on the Ign1 circuit.
This is why / how the factory type electronic ignition gets power when cranking. Usually the Ignition 1 circuit only has the alternator field and regulator load, the electronic ignition, and maybe an electric choke and/or idle solenoid as loads.
The Ignition switch is doing alot for us. In the cranking position it provides power to IGN2 (the brown wire that goes to the coil side of the ballast resistor) to give full power to the coil when cranking. It also provides power to the starters neutral safety switch relay to crank the starter. That is a totally different circuit in the ignition switch so that when the key is in the run position the starter relay is isolated from the IGN2 circuit. When cranking, the IGN 1 circuit is disconnected at the key so the current back flowing through the ballast resistor is limited to only the loads on it in the engine compartment. It would have been nice that the IGN1 did not disconnect when cranking, but that is how the ignition switch was designed 60 years ago.
 
furious70 said:
Ok, let me phrase another way, they only support hyper spark and I've not looked to see if there's a bbm hyper spark dizzy. Other efi support a variety of triggers
Click to expand...
The is a SBM and a BBM Hyperspark distributor. In silver or black.

https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/hyperspark_distributors/parts/565-304K

https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/distributors/hyperspark_distributors/parts/565-306K

The distributors are also available separately.
 
nitro_rat said:
The Holley thingy uses a proprietary pickup sock that they make called "Hydramat." As long as the sock touches fuel anywhere, it will wick it up, thus theoretically a "well" isn't necessary. YMMV, I've never used one. I have seen the product demonstrated by Holley and it does look impressive.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/hydramat/
Click to expand...
They don’t work very well if you Autocross, drag race, or drive aggressively on winding roads
 
furious70 said:
My fury has been efi turbocharged since 2012. I run a walbro 255 on the frame rail. OEM pickup. At around 1/4 tank and wot launch yes I'll fuel starve. Just driving around, no.
Click to expand...
What’s the sense of running a turbo just to drive around?
 
Well, you night imagine that a turbocharged big block exceeds any posted speed limit pretty quick, and I like to put miles on my cars, so there's a fair amount of just driving around...
 
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