727 Rebuild...Anything I Am Missing?

[threewood]

Going in my 1969 GTX street car behind a 490ish horse 440, sure grip 3.55 rear.

First thing, trans is a PK3897784 5617 5474. Shows it as a 1976-77 Dodge truck transmission, 400 and 440. Anything specifically different in this 727 than car transmissions?

For the rebuild, I bought a complete kit, Kolene steels, red eagle friction, new bushings, orings, gaskets, etc. Paid $145 shipped and it is complete.

Now the extras.....going to get a bolt in sprag, front and rear billet servos from mrrandys, heavy duty band strut and 5800rpm governor.

Going to keep it a stock shifting car without shift kit, standard floor mount stock shifter.waiting on the rest of the motor to order the torque converter. Is there anything I am missing or in need of? Billet drums are way too expensive for this. Good to re use pump if it isn't scored?

 

[dvw]

Makesure the front drum holds 4 clutches, not 3. Like to see a 3.8 lever. Stock servos are fine. The only bolt in sprage worth anything are the $200 style available from A&A, cope, Etc. The others use stock rollers, useless. I've even seen the good ones roll over with drive line failure.
Doug

 

[threewood]

Makesure the front drum holds 4 clutches, not 3. Like to see a 3.8 lever. Stock servos are fine. The only bolt in sprage worth anything are the $200 style available from A&A, cope, Etc. The others use stock rollers, useless. I've even seen the good ones roll over with drive line failure.
Doug

Nice, thank you. For the front drum to hold 4, does it need to be milled or will a thinner retainer ring work?
3.8 lever will be on the list. I already have the servos ordered. And I agree on the sprag, seems the bolts do nothing unless it is loose in the case and will not keep it from blowing apart. I will replace the rollers and springs though.

 

[AR67GTX]

On my on-going first experience rebuild I found after tear down you just need to measure and examine all parts closely to see what's good and not-so-good. Don't forget to measure input shaft end play, all shim thicknesses and planetary end play during disassembly (I forgot the latter). If you don't have it - Carl Munroe's book on Torquefilte rebuilding is a great and valuable reference especially if you are new to this like me. Be prepared to have to order a few last minute shims, snap clips, etc. I've found Makco and TSR racing stock most individual parts (shims, selective kits, bushings, seal rings, etc) and ship fast.

I would consider looking at least looking at the TransGo shift kit series (kit 1, 2 and 3) with a performance engine. I put a series 1 in mine which basically just quickens shifts up a bit and fixes a few of the valve body shortcomings. The stage 1 is not a radical, manual body shift kit - recommended for tow vehicles and basically stock vehicles. They include an optional feature that holds what ever gear you select and will not over-ride, but you don't have to install that feature. I didn't. And they are inexpensive - about $60 if you look around.

DVW, Miller and OldBee in addition to some other members have been especially helpful.

Good luck.

 

[threewood]

Thanks! I've rebuilt them before but not for a big block. I have a bag of spare shims and parts from a previous build. Big concern is correct parts as 70 and below is different than 71 and up. I'm still talking with tflitepatty about a governor kit for the 71+. I installed a max wedge governor in my 62 and it shifts nice and hard at 5800rpm and want the same type of action in this one. Transgo looks decent and I remember looking at them before.

 

[miller]

Big concern is correct parts as 70 and below is different than 71 and up.

Yeah, that's probably the main thing...getting correct year application parts. Some of the parts will swap, some don't, and there seems there's so many suppliers out there making quite a bit of improving parts. That makes for pretty much any kind of build you want, as long as you halfway know what your doing.

 

[Ski 61701]

Not to hijack things here but hopefully condensing a topic. I am curious regarding the kickdown rod adjustment. 65 bb trans, and I notice when I manually move the kickdown lever all the way back in its travel, the arm on the valve body pushes a thin plunger that is inside of a thicker plunger both are flush with the valve body. I hook up the kickdown rod and push down on the gas pedal the inner plunger gets pushed in flush with the outer plunger, but the outer plunger doesnt move. The carb butterflies are completely open at this point. Question is, do I have the proper engagement of the plunger? Ive attached a pic with me pointing to the plunger in question. Again not to hijack, just I thought my question kinda goes along with the topic

 

[66Satellite47]

Big block 727 pretty much the same as SB. I sure would use the 4 disc front clutch drum, I converted mine to 5 disc for drag racing. Truck trans should have the 4 disc front drum. I also liked the 4 pinion planetaries, front for sure, both if you can find the stock rear one easily (other folks have different opinions). Late model wide bushing front drum & support (which you should have) is the way to go. Get the clutch pack clearances & input thrust clearance right, get the snap ring assortment if it didn't come with your kit. I used stock, good condition sprags & servo's behind 550+ HP for 10 + years. I'd consider an aftermarket valve body before the sprag & servo mods, IMO only.

 

[threewood]

Big block 727 pretty much the same as SB. I sure would use the 4 disc front clutch drum, I converted mine to 5 disc for drag racing. Truck trans should have the 4 disc front drum. I also liked the 4 pinion planetaries, front for sure, both if you can find the stock rear one easily (other folks have different opinions). Late model wide bushing front drum & support (which you should have) is the way to go. Get the clutch pack clearances & input thrust clearance right, get the snap ring assortment if it didn't come with your kit. I used stock, good condition sprags & servo's behind 550+ HP for 10 + years. I'd consider an aftermarket valve body before the sprag & servo mods, IMO only.

Awesome. I forgot the planetaries! I need to open up the case and see if they are 3 pinion and what shape they are. Good chance it is 4 pinion according to tflitepatty. What kind of valve body do you prefer? Do I need one or a kit as I plan to keep the automatic shifting?

 

[66Satellite47]

Awesome. I forgot the planetaries! I need to open up the case and see if they are 3 pinion and what shape they are. A&A has used 4 pinion somewhat cheap. What kind of valve body do you prefer? Do I need one or a kit as I plan to keep the automatic shifting?

Don't have much experience with high perf full auto valve bodies. My one experience with a kit wasn't good, but .... could have been my driving. I used Turbo Action Cheetah manual shift in my drag trans. Not sure what's out there these days.

 

[oldbee]

I think I would go with #1 transgo also, a little better oil flow. A full-manual valve body on the street will make you cringe every time it shifts; it will sound like the drivetrain is rdy to drop on the ground! All the other tips sound good, I ran a hemi(5 disc) frt. drum when racing, but I got lucky and found it used at a tranny shop.

 

[66Satellite47]

When I was bracket racing, I ran a Hemi 5 disc drum for a couple years & then switched to the Turbo Action modified spacer to add the 5th disc in a standard wedge (lighter) front drum. BTW I always heard good comments about the Transgo kits, but never used one myself. The full manual VB does bang pretty hard for street driving.

 

[AR67GTX]

Not to hijack things here but hopefully condensing a topic. I am curious regarding the kickdown rod adjustment. 65 bb trans, and I notice when I manually move the kickdown lever all the way back in its travel, the arm on the valve body pushes a thin plunger that is inside of a thicker plunger both are flush with the valve body. I hook up the kickdown rod and push down on the gas pedal the inner plunger gets pushed in flush with the outer plunger, but the outer plunger doesnt move. The carb butterflies are completely open at this point. Question is, do I have the proper engagement of the plunger? Ive attached a pic with me pointing to the plunger in question. Again not to hijack, just I thought my question kinda goes along with the topic

View attachment 399058

The throttle valve doesn't work linearly with the initial throttle opening. The adjustment screw and tang that push in on it are supposed to be adjusted so there is a specific gap with the plunger bottomed and the tang at rest. On most TFs it's .625 inch but you have an early model so probably good idea to check against a service manual. Probably the same. I found a socket (about .623 or 4 was as close as I could get) and inserted it between the plunger and the tang, pushed in to bottom the valve and then adjusted the tang to just about hit it (hoping to make up the 2 or 3 thousands). If you have a factory shop manual it should be described in it. Of course this has to be matched up with correct kick down linkage adjustment to all work correctly. Hope this helps.

 

[AR67GTX]

Thanks! I've rebuilt them before but not for a big block. I have a bag of spare shims and parts from a previous build. Big concern is correct parts as 70 and below is different than 71 and up. I'm still talking with tflitepatty about a governor kit for the 71+. I installed a max wedge governor in my 62 and it shifts nice and hard at 5800rpm and want the same type of action in this one. Transgo looks decent and I remember looking at them before.

You're way ahead of me then. Waiting on a select snap ring or shim that I didn't have is what has killed me.

 

[dvw]

I run 3 pin planets at 900hp@3350lbs. It'll strip the planet carrier before it hurts the planet gears. New 4 clutch drus are cheap. You can also cut a higher snap ring groove in the 3 clutch drum, trim the pressure plate thickness, or use thin frictions.
Doug

 

[oldbee]

Just thinking about the 2 sleeves in the TV linkage; I "think" the bigger o.d. sleeve is what actually gives kickdown to 2nd gear. I very well could be wrong.. "dvw", waiting for reply. It's been a looonngg time.

 

[66Satellite47]

I run 3 pin planets at 900hp@3350lbs. It'll strip the planet carrier before it hurts the planet gears. New 4 clutch drus are cheap. You can also cut a higher snap ring groove in the 3 clutch drum, trim the pressure plate thickness, or use thin frictions.
Doug

Like I said, others have different opinions.

 

[threewood]

Got it semi-cleaned up in prep for yanking it apart tomorrow. Does anyone have a pic or measurments of the correct throttle linkage arm? I'm hoping I can use the one on it.

 

[miller]

Question is, do I have the proper engagement of the plunger?

Been awhile, though if I remember right, the outer sleeve you mention, is the 'stop' for the outward movement. Valve itself is spring loaded, to return it, off throttle. A look at a parts break-down of that valve body should show.

Trans looks like a good start! Nice 'coating' on the pump. I always paint that surface, to hold down the rust.

Sounds like AR67GTX is getting a good education!!!

 

[AR67GTX]

Yeah I am - even after fooling with these parts for several weeks it's still a bit of a mystery that these transmissions actually work. That outer sleeve on the kickdown valve just floats in there around the valve - not sure of it's function but some sort of stop is logical. It is not spring loaded - possibly fluid pressure pushes it out.