727 TCI Streetfighter question
- Thread starter aussiewannabee69
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aussiewannabee69
Well-Known Member
Oh sweet thanks. Was looking for an Aus supplier really hate paying for freight.
Cliff Ramsdell
Well-Known Member
That converter is TCI’s 10” street fighter, https://www.jegs.com/i/TCI/890/142200/10002/-1
as for the lack of spring on the accumulator piston and the blocker rod that’s just fine on a street car. That stops the piston from moving on the 1 - 2 shift and gives you a firmer up shift.
Looking at the material in the pan I’m guessing it’s clutch material but you’ll know more once you pull both clutch packs apart.
Your going to want to open up both clutch sets and clean and new seals along with disassembly of the valve body to completely clean. Contact TCI and see if they can “service” your converter or try Frank Lupo at dynamic converter, https://www.dynamicconverters.com/aboutus.htm
Good luck,
Cliff Ramsdell
as for the lack of spring on the accumulator piston and the blocker rod that’s just fine on a street car. That stops the piston from moving on the 1 - 2 shift and gives you a firmer up shift.
Looking at the material in the pan I’m guessing it’s clutch material but you’ll know more once you pull both clutch packs apart.
Your going to want to open up both clutch sets and clean and new seals along with disassembly of the valve body to completely clean. Contact TCI and see if they can “service” your converter or try Frank Lupo at dynamic converter, https://www.dynamicconverters.com/aboutus.htm
Good luck,
Cliff Ramsdell
66Satellite47
Well-Known Member
I don't know of any way to be sure if a torque convertor is bad, other than if it rattles, the stator broke. The material in the pan is hard to tell from the pics. Some material is pretty common. A lot, and if metallic is not good. I have never used a TCI convertor, was never impressed by them. Open up the TCI trans and see what you see. If there is a supplier that knows Mopars nearby get the rebuild kit. They are simple to work on when you know how they work. dvw gives great advice and knows his stuff, listen to him. If there is a lot of material circulating in the trans, take a close look at the internals of the valve body. That will get scored by contaminants and not function properly.
aussiewannabee69
Well-Known Member
I have dissembled the transmission and have some results. I first found the snap ring retainer on on the inner race of the bearing to have worn a lip not allowing me to remove the governor. I filed it down smooth.
The second part was what appears to be some sort of thrust washer. Like a plastic reddish compound in between the forward and reverse clutch packs broken into pieces.
The forward clutch pack has worn out.
Then once the the planetary sets were removed I found wear marks on the rear of the set. I would guess that’s the few small metal fragments I have found.
I removed the TC and drained it. Oil seemed quite clean no fragments coming out.when I shook it the internals moved around, but once I stuck my fingers in and held the internal spline, nothing rattled. Does that mean the TC is OK or toast?
The second part was what appears to be some sort of thrust washer. Like a plastic reddish compound in between the forward and reverse clutch packs broken into pieces.
The forward clutch pack has worn out.
Then once the the planetary sets were removed I found wear marks on the rear of the set. I would guess that’s the few small metal fragments I have found.
I removed the TC and drained it. Oil seemed quite clean no fragments coming out.when I shook it the internals moved around, but once I stuck my fingers in and held the internal spline, nothing rattled. Does that mean the TC is OK or toast?
Next, buy a complete set of selective thrust washers, ( about $6?) They are fiber and come in different
sizes so you can set the end play (very important). If this trans is going to be run hard, You need to
replace that front aluminum three planet with a five planet steel unit! Also, get a complete set of bronze
thrust washers for the planets. Obviously the one that used to be on that aluminum planet is junk. The
trick is to get an output shaft from a 71 or later transmission and a steel five front planet from a 48RE
diesel transmission so the planet fits the spline on the shaft. The earlier shaft has a different spline.
The second pic is of the bronze thrust washer on the back of the rear planet. The bottom picture
is a 71 and up Stator support with the wide bushing (Best choice)
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aussiewannabee69
Well-Known Member
So I would have to replace that shaft just due to the small wear on the circling ring groove?
It’s not going to be a strip car at all. Purely street driven with the occasional blast every now and then.
That's a hard one to answer not being there and not being able to put my hands on it. I guess that
if you took the output shaft to a machine shop and had them re-cut the groove with a nice crisp
profile and put a snap ring that's snug you should be O.K. If you are NOT going to hot rod it, then
you can opt for another aluminum front planet, but that one is toast! Your convertor should be
opened up by someone and make sure the thrust washers or needle bearings are not trashed!
Someone local should be able to do that without too much problems? Again, when you start
reading the book, you'll see how everything goes back together. If you don't understand something,
just ask. There are plenty of people here that know what they're doing. Once you do your first trans,
you'll never pay someone to do one again!
if you took the output shaft to a machine shop and had them re-cut the groove with a nice crisp
profile and put a snap ring that's snug you should be O.K. If you are NOT going to hot rod it, then
you can opt for another aluminum front planet, but that one is toast! Your convertor should be
opened up by someone and make sure the thrust washers or needle bearings are not trashed!
Someone local should be able to do that without too much problems? Again, when you start
reading the book, you'll see how everything goes back together. If you don't understand something,
just ask. There are plenty of people here that know what they're doing. Once you do your first trans,
you'll never pay someone to do one again!
aussiewannabee69
Well-Known Member
I do have a machinist friend who said he can machine it out slightly wider and clean up the edges and fit a wider circlip.
66Satellite47
Well-Known Member
I agree with most of what zyzzyx said. For street car, you can use any of the stock 3 or 4 pinion planetary. I used a OEM 4 pinion behind 550-600 HP for thousands of runs. Be sure to match the front pump(early or late) to the front clutch drum(narrow bushing is early). I suspect the cause of this damage was related to drive shaft length. I can't think of any other cause that would make that type thrust damage. Check that output shaft for straightness.
Don't know any way to tell about the TC. I just know that my convertors that went away, broke the stator which was the rattle sound. Good luck
Don't know any way to tell about the TC. I just know that my convertors that went away, broke the stator which was the rattle sound. Good luck
aussiewannabee69
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I did also find that in the other planetary set that had no wear, it had another thin metal splined disc whereas the damaged one didn’t.
Could it have been due to improper installation aswell? Maybe the depth wasn’t set correctly.
The rear planet gets that thin splined washer at the rear only. The bronze thrust washer clips on the front of the planet. It thrusts forward during operation. Like I said, when everythng is assembled, you can check for end play and put the correct washers in the right place
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aussiewannabee69
Well-Known Member
It’s the front assembly that has worn and is missing the thrust. Looks like it was meant to have a copper thrust with the tabs in it. I would say they have forgotten to put it in when they have rebuilt it. Well at least I know why it’s buggered and it hasn’t completely exploded. Now to get new parts and put them back in.
Cheers
66Satellite47
Well-Known Member
That sure seems like an improperly assembled trans. I'm still concerned about the output shaft snap ring. Why is that failed? Again, maybe a drive shaft length issue. I've been building 727's for 50 years, never seen what you have.
aussiewannabee69
Well-Known Member
I’m taking it to a machine shop today so he can clean it up and fit a bigger snap ring. I will check my shaft. And get back to you. Could it have anything to do with improper depth setting on the TC to engine? I’ve never installed one, just thinking out aloud
As far as the snap ring groove for the governor. There normally isn't any real fore/aft force there. My feeling is that the damage was caused by the failure of the #2 thrust washer (which is uncommon). I would check the front drum to make sure the inner bushing is snug. The #1 and 2 thrust washers are phenolic resin. They are available in .061", .081", and .102" thicknesses. Common is That damage could have been caused by the drive shaft being forced into the trans. End play is controlled by the stack up of the #1, 2, and 3 thrust washers and the snap ring in the tail shaft housing retaining the output shaft roller bearing. You'll see the bearing itself can move fore/aft some. That's why I wouldn't get overly wound up about it. Just make sure it's at the lower side of the spec and isn't bound up. The The drive train (rear shaft) endplay is independent of overall endplay. It's set by the #4,5,6 thrust washers. The assembled unit will have very little endplay when measured between the output shaft snap ring and front planet. There are shims and different thickness snap rings to adjust it. But it's seldom incorrect. We run 3 pin planets in race stuff all the time. The planet splines themselves will fail before the gears. Without a trans brake at 700hp the stock planet will live a happy life. on the year not all trans get the flat splined. My 900HP racecar has an additional snap ring groove in the out put shaft as I cut down the governor and parking pawl gear to reduce weight. Its been in the car for over 760 passes. so your repair will be fine. As stated the late(71 and up) front drum and reaction shaft support is a better design. But for a street car with some strip use the early stuff works fine.
Doug
Doug
It's not the snap ring groove for the governor that got trashed, it's the snap ring groove
that holds the big roller bearing in place. If he can get a good fit on a new groove and
snap ring, that'll be good. He said he couldn't get the governor off because of the buggered up
groove and that it was the bearing retainer groove.
that holds the big roller bearing in place. If he can get a good fit on a new groove and
snap ring, that'll be good. He said he couldn't get the governor off because of the buggered up
groove and that it was the bearing retainer groove.
aussiewannabee69
Well-Known Member
Ok so your saying the circlip grooves on either side of the bearing aren’t dire to the overall end play result? Would it be best just to get some new circlips and leave the shaft?
Ok that makes sense about the resin washers. I only have 1 that is in tact. The other 2 have broken up.
I spoke to a 727 trans guy in Aus who does a lot of racing transmissions, also said I don’t need to upgrade to the 4 planet. 3 is fine for street.
I have also disassembled the valve and have some more findings.
When I removed the shifting valve cover a ball came out of where the spool and spring are. In the service manuals there is no ball in there.
So I removed the top plate and found there was a ball missing. Also the housing is damaged. Where the ball is meant to sit the housing has broken.
Is this valve toast. I’ve stopped pulling it down now. No point if it’s buggered. first photo is where the ball came from. It was one the rhs spools. 2nd pic is where the ball is meant to be and also where the damage is.
In the service manual it says there is meant to be a 3/8 ball aswell. That is also missing.
aussiewannabee69
Well-Known Member
I’ve also done searches on this valve body part number. I can’t find anything relating to 727. It all points to 904. With an extra pipe on it. I’ve attached photos of mine and also the one online I can find.
If this really was a TCI Streetfighter transmission is there anyway to tell? everything that I’m finding is pointing towards just something thrown together
If this really was a TCI Streetfighter transmission is there anyway to tell? everything that I’m finding is pointing towards just something thrown together
A 904 and 727 use the same valve body. That's why the rear attachment hole is elongated. To fit either transmission. That housing isn't damaged. Its been drilled/milled with a template for a shift kit. That might be why the ball was in the spool valve hole as well. And why a ball was missing. I would contact TCI about the proper orientation of valve body parts. Always know exactly what parts came from where when disassembling a valve body. To many levels and mods to know them all. As for the snap ring groove. The large snap ring in the tail shaft does not hold the output ball bearing stationary. It can move in the housing. There isn't much fore/aft load on the bearing. A repair should be fine. Especially in Australia where parts are scarce. I'd knock the burr off and run it.
Doug
Doug
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