A great Reason to install Ladder Bars

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  1. Mike Gaines

    Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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    I have Mopar Racer Friend back in Illinois who has the following car:

    1) 1965 Dodge 2 Door Post Coronet at 3750lb weight on the starting line.
    2) Ladder Bars with QA1 Single Adjustable Shocks on the rear.
    3) MT 31x10.50W rear slicks.
    4) Moroso 3 way adjustable front shocks.
    5) 512" Wedge Motor, 14-1CR, Indy ported SR Heads, Cam is 267/278@.050, INDY Bathtub Cross Ram with 2 750 Edelbrocks, etc.
    6) Transbrake with 5000 converter.
    Here are figures off his 1/8th mile time slip that he texted to me. He has several, very similar ones.
    60' 1.3309
    330' 3.980
    660' 6.2431
    660mph 108.18

    I think that consensus of opinion might say that if this car had Cal Trac Bars, Cal Trac MonoLeafs, Cal Trac 9 way shocks and Cal Trac 90/10 front shocks (OR any other leaf spring suspension) is that the 1/8 mile numbers would be more like as follows:
    60' 1.40 to 1.41
    330' 4.10 to 4.15
    660' 6.42 to 6.45
    660mph 105 to 106

    The reason for my consensus is that this 3750lb car with only 10.5W tires is cutting 1.33 60' and 6.24 1.8 mile ETs is fantastic and I think the difference lies in the Ladder Bar Rear Suspension.

    20170507_125316.jpg 20170507_131604.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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    • davek

      davek Well-Known Member

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      sweet,would like a pic of the rear.frame ties?
       
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      • rumblefish360

        rumblefish360 Well-Known Member

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        Looks like theory not fact.
        Every suspension has its place.
        A lot depends on the power level and performance sought in what it is doing or designed for. Making blanket statements as if that is the best set up for all cars is just plain wrong.
         
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        • Mike Gaines

          Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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          You are right....I appreciate your statement and it makes sense....I was referring to drag race cars with basically the same weight and horsepower and tire size...sorry I didn't make that clear.
          Also referring to the car owners who have the constant and never ending desire for lower Elapsed Times.
           
          Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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          • khryslerkid

            khryslerkid FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            Don't forget to factor in his rear gear. If he's mostly running the 1/8th they are probably pretty steep.
             
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            • super-bee_ski

              super-bee_ski FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              WOW
              That is quite a Car!
               
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              • Mike Gaines

                Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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                I forgot to list that. He runs a 4.30 gear.
                 
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                • dvw

                  dvw Well-Known Member

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                  Nice car for sure. The 60ft appears quicker than what I would expect. The 330, 660, mph all look like they line up. So the question is why? Could be several reasons. First is 60 ft clocks. They vary. I race at many diferent tracks. At times I've seen 60ft vary .05-.10. Yet the 330ft and ET are very close. Another possibility is the converter. We've had some that 60ft extremely well, but ET and mph are not what they should be. The motor in this car also makes aprox 730 hp. Never discount power when looking at 60ft. This car obiviously is pretty close on its tune up. But to credit just the ladder bars, nope. As far as this particular tire. They work, many people have been way quicker than me on them. I have plenty of 1.24-1.26 60ft slips.
                  Doug
                   
                  Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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                  • biomedtechguy

                    biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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                    :thumbsup: and :lowdown:
                     
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                    • Mike Gaines

                      Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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                      My friend texted me 6 time slips (3 from 1 track and 3 from another track) and they all showed 1.33 to 1.34 60' times with almost identical 660' ETs. I still think that if this was a typical Cal Trac leaf spring car all of the incremental times would be significantly slower. But the real question is how much faster are good ladder bars over complete Cal Trac leaf spring setup.
                      My friend bought the car as a roller and had the motor built for it. He has ONLY run the car with the ladder bars that were on it when he bought it.
                      The real proof of the pudding on Ladder Bar Improvement will come this spring when MALEX puts his car to the track, as he has directly switched from Cal Tracs to Ladder Bars.
                       
                    • Mike Gaines

                      Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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                      Sorry, no pics of the rear frame, etc.
                       
                    • 6PKRTSE

                      6PKRTSE Well-Known Member

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                      Beautiful car. I like everything about it.
                      With today's tires & shock technology. I do not feel ladder bars is any better than a caltrac/leaf car. More consistent, maybe. My buddy's local Grudge/No E.T. car goes sub .090's 60' & been 200+ in the 1/4 with Caltracs/leafs & 10-1/2" tires.
                      Another GM buddy of mine went from stock suspension to Ladders bars that we fabbed up under the car & it never went any faster than before with that same package.
                       
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                      • dvw

                        dvw Well-Known Member

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                        I
                        [QUOTE="Mike Gaines
                        But the real question is how much faster are good ladder bars over complete Cal Trac leaf spring setup.

                        The real proof of the pudding on Ladder Bar Improvement will come this spring when MALEX puts his car to the track, as he has directly switched from Cal Tracs to Ladder Bars.[/QUOTE]
                        To be honest I think when the set-up is correct in the 9.00 and up ET range, either of them will work. My sons car is deadly on Cal Tracks. It has been 1.37 with a 3.55 gears, 275 M/T radials at 3750lbs. I do run ladder bars. Why? because they were cheaper and lighter than Cal Tracks. You need the same good shocks either way so that's a wash in cost. Coil springs are cheap compared to mono leafs. That leave Cal tracks, sliders, and front spring mounts vs ladder bars, shock mounts, and a front cross member. The two advantages to Cal Tracks are they work well in a street driven car and don't require welding to install. I'm very happy with them. If I was building a car from the start I would use them again. But not sure they're any better as far as 60ft.
                        Doug
                         
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                        • Mike Gaines

                          Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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                          To be honest I think when the set-up is correct in the 9.00 and up ET range, either of them will work. My sons car is deadly on Cal Tracks. It has been 1.37 with a 3.55 gears, 275 M/T radials at 3750lbs. I do run ladder bars. Why? because they were cheaper and lighter than Cal Tracks. You need the same good shocks either way so that's a wash in cost. Coil springs are cheap compared to mono leafs. That leave Cal tracks, sliders, and front spring mounts vs ladder bars, shock mounts, and a front cross member. The two advantages to Cal Tracks are they work well in a street driven car and don't require welding to install. I'm very happy with them. If I was building a car from the start I would use them again. But not sure they're any better as far as 60ft.
                          Doug[/QUOTE]
                          Doug, What you are reporting does make sense. I am/was so locked into the fact that ladder bars will make a better 60' PLUS and actually more important, quicker reaction times on the PRO TREE. I sure wish Malex's weather was suitable for his to take his new Ladder Bar car to the track...that can tell use a lot.
                           
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                          • coloradodave

                            coloradodave FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                            Mike, All Malex's trial will tell all of us is what difference the change made to HIS car. As I'm sure you know, what works on one car doesn't necessarily transfer to another car, even with the exact same set-up. If it did, everyone would be running the same set-up and there would be no competition in aftermarket parts. Part of the 'fun' of racing is making incremental changes to the suspension, shocks and tires to get the 60' times down consistently as low as you can. I'll bet there is more left in your set-up. BTW, I love your car...
                             
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                            • Mike Gaines

                              Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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                              Dave,
                              Malex's car and my car, although different years, are almost tony twins.
                              His motor is very very similar to mine
                              His Tires and gear ratio are the same
                              Our weights are very similar
                              Converters both made by Lenny at Ultimate Converter
                              He had Cal Trac Setup exactly the same as mine
                              and...we ran within .038 seconds of each other in the 1/4 mile.
                              I have ran a 10.158 @ 131.54 and he has run a 10.120 @ 132.28
                              I think it will be a pretty good comparison of Ladders versus Cal Tracs….(at least I will believe it....LOL)
                              AND...I looked at your photo garage...that is one sweet convertible, love the new wheels.
                               
                              Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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                              • PRHeads

                                PRHeads Well-Known Member

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                                And then you have all those stock eliminator guys/gals running in the 1.3’s using cal-tracs with way less power, often heavier cars, and on 9” tires.

                                I will say this though, when my friend’s 68 Charger was running low 10’s/high 9’s...... he swapped from cal-tracs to ladder bars and his 60’ consistency improved quite a bit.......and the car picked up about a tenth........ along with it not killing the sidewalls on the slicks in 35 passes.
                                 
                                Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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                                • Mike Gaines

                                  Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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                                  Rest my case...LOL...thanks
                                   
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                                  • dvw

                                    dvw Well-Known Member

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                                    [QUOTE="PRHeads, post: 911148171
                                    I will say this though, when my friend’s 68 Charger was running low 10’s/high 9’s...... he swapped from cal-tracs to ladder bars and his 60’ consistency improved quite a bit.......and the car picked up about a tenth........ along with it not killing the sidewalls on the slicks in 35 passes.

                                    The key here is it wasn't killing the sidewall. Did he upgrade the shocks?
                                    Doug
                                     
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                                    • theman440

                                      theman440 Well-Known Member

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                                      Bob Mazzolini's A/SA '67 Hemi Belvedere 60ft's at 1.29 on a 9 inch tire and 3700 lbs with CalTracs.

                                      845326317.jpg
                                       
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