A great Reason to install Ladder Bars

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  1. 4spphil

    4spphil Active Member

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    There is no weight on a leaf spring shock when the car is not in motion...static. During acceleration the shock is carrying some weight. Force is trying to collapse the shock. Valveing eventually allows that to happen in a controled matter. If/when the shock "unloads" so does the suspension.

    On a coil over the spring attachs to the body and shaft. Not only is the shock transmitting the weight the coil is carrying to the mounting points the force from the shaft/plunger in the body is also transmitting its load through the shock via hydraulic or air pressure. Static not as much but under acceleration much more.
     
  2. theman440

    theman440 Well-Known Member

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  3. dvw

    dvw Well-Known Member

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    If a shock is removed from a leaf spring car, will it fall to the ground? No. If a coli over shock has the spring removed will it stay at the same height? No. Yes the outer body of a coil over is the attaching point for the spring. Valving of shocks causes them to resist motion. They do not support weight. Not to be argumentitive. I suggest you read Dave Morgans Chassis book. The more we can learn about this stuff the quicker and more consistent everyone can be.
    Doug
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
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    • 4spphil

      4spphil Active Member

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      If weight isn't the force actuating the shock what is??? Remove the shocks. Jump up and down on the rear bumper. Put them back on and repeat the jumping. Will the travel be the same in both instances?

      If your car is capable of a big wheel stand...remove the front shocks and launch it. The shock is absorbing weight/force as soon as the tires start to touch the ground.

      When the shock is in dynamics it is momentarily carrying some of the load. THAT IS THE PURPOSE of a racing shock. Just go down to Sears and buy a set of their $8.95 specials...should work just fine.
       
    • coloradodave

      coloradodave FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      It seems to me that you're confusing weight with inertia, the resistance to movement. If a shock was actually holding up weight, when you remove them the car should sit lower, right? It doesn't...I'm with Doug on this one. Not trying to be argumentative; just simple physics.
       
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      • 4spphil

        4spphil Active Member

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        Do you understand static and dynamic load??? Is the shock in motion when a car is at a stand still??? WT*
         
      • NSS Guy

        NSS Guy Well-Known Member

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        Reading Mike's posts about removing weight from the rear and the car not working, have you done anything to lighten the car up front? Chrome moly drag link, strut bars, steering shaft, lightened K member, moved engine back? Have you tried radial slicks? they are pretty much a tenth quicker than bias and will help reaction time. If you really need to quicken the 60ft and the car reaction put 4.56 or more gear in it to get it moving. Just some thoughts
         
      • Cranky

        Cranky Moderator Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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        Didn't read everything here but helped a buddy with a nose heavy car that had CT's on it and all we did was chase our tails until we stuck on ladder bars. After doing recommended adjustments for the bias etc in the shop and the car performed better on it's first pass with the ladders!
         
      • Mike Gaines

        Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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        I have NOT done anything to lighten the front of the car...no budget for those items mentioned.
        My slicks (bias) only have about 50 runs on them so I am not in a position to buy new radial slicks to try them. I have a 4.30 gear with 94" rollout slicks. No Money to change gears...
        so....I am going to stiffen up my cal trac single adj shocks next time out and see if that helps.
        For the record … I am OK with my ET's (10.15 to 10.17), 60 foots 1.39 to 1.42) but the thing I am looking to do is improve my REACTION TIME on the PRO TREE.
        And I continually thanks all of the guys on this site for the advice and help.
         
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        • 33 IMP

          33 IMP Well-Known Member

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          Off topic, pardon the hijack please. Mike, are you running against a four tenths or five tenths pro tree?
           
        • dvw

          dvw Well-Known Member

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          [QUOTE="Mike Gaines,the thing I am looking to do is improve my REACTION TIME on the PRO TREE.
          .[/QUOTE]
          Bump it in 2 bumps. Make sure to compensate you dial accordingly as it will slow up. Get on the practice tree. Tighten the shocks, leave tbe weight in it. if you are trying to win that's where I would spend my test time.
          Doug
           
        • dvw

          dvw Well-Known Member

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          You sir understand it. Having an understanding of basic physics is the basis for the entire reasoning of suspension and it's adjustments. I started by reading. Then doing actual testing. Fortunately for me I have an extremely intelligent engineer that is also a drag racer. With his help to explain the science, it all clicked. Between us, every racer we've worked with has gone quicker. Many with no more than simple tweeks. My purpose here is not to argue. It's to share what I've learned that works. And why it works. Then others can go on to do stuff on their own. Like I tell everyone. Don't believe everything you read. Try it out. Remember the sources that work for you. Use them to your advantage. As you gain knowledge it will become easier for you to determine correct information. This doesn't garantee that you still won't have to make an occasonal guess and try uncharted territory. But it will make you a better racer.
          Doug
           
          Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
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          • Cranky

            Cranky Moderator Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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            Don't know why people think shocks have anything to do with the height of a car.

            And Mike, if you don't have Dave Morgan's chassis book, I have an extra one around here if you want it....
             
          • malex

            malex FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            ---
            One thing that has definitely worked for me, is listening to Doug.
             
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            • 69 GTX

              69 GTX FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              You could use shorter front tires, reduces roll out. Also try an amber faceshield/glasses to see better.
               
            • Mike Gaines

              Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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              I will PM you my address for the book. Thanks, mike
               
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              • Mike Gaines

                Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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                I bump in deeper in the Pro Tree already. I have mounted up 24" (short) front tires. When I run the Pro Tree class (D/Gas) it is 10.60 heads up racing so I put in my restrictor plate to slow it down anyway so I am not worried about going slower, or faster...just 10.60.
                Thanks for all the advice.
                 
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                • coloradodave

                  coloradodave FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  Yes, I understand static and dynamic load. Since the shocks do not support the weight of the car, I fail to grasp your point. Do you understand inertia? Resistance to movement and carrying weight aren't the same. Sorry, Phil, I don't think I'm going to change anyone's mind, so I'm letting this go. I can see by your last remark that you're frustrated...
                   
                • Mike Gaines

                  Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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                  We run 4/10ths on the Pro Tree. And that is an important item. And it is NOT my choice. It is the organizers choice. The 5/10th Pro Tree would be fine. My .110 lights would be .010. I would love that.
                   
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                  • 33 IMP

                    33 IMP Well-Known Member

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                    Yeah, four tenths tree's are tough. If the guy in the other lane weighs 1000-1200 lbs less than you, with big tires and a brake, well.....
                    They probably wanted to avoid red lights, when they decided on a four tenths tree.
                     
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