A833 4 speed second gear trouble

[NascarFastcar!]

Hello everyone. I have a couple of things I want to touch on. Currently I am having issues with my 69 a833 4 speed getting into second gear. Under hard acceleration I can occasionally get it to get into gear. Something to mention is, sometimes is feels like a “dead space” almost as if no gear is there. 1st, 3rd, and 4th gear work fine. I have played with my linkage and it shifts perfectly into every gear with the car off and I have confirmed I am getting full throw and actuation of each gear by physically checking under the car. I have pushed the car in 2nd gear with the car off to see if it was even gear and can confirm it is. I recently refreshed the transmission and did all the seals and bearings as well as roller bearing etc…

My biggest culprits as to why I am not getting second gear are I am using cheap stp 75w90, bad synchro gear (Although it looked very clean inside and the teeth are in very good condition), my z bar does not have the protrusion for the clutch rod so I ran a bolt and lock nut through it. Although that wouldn’t make sense because I get every other gear.

What do you guys think? This was my first time working on a a833. Did I leave something out or miss something?

 

[padam]

Did you make sure all the parts are in the ball detant mechanism?

 

[NascarFastcar!]

Did you make sure all the parts are in the ball detant mechanism?

I’m positive it was when I put it back together. The two metal balls, the spring, and spacer. I will drain the fluid and put in Sta lube 85w90 and check the side cover for it. I don’t see how it would’ve popped out?

 

[padam]

I don’t think fluid is the problem. How are your motor mounts? Do you have a torque strap?

 

[NascarFastcar!]

I don’t think fluid is the problem. How are your motor mounts? Do you have a torque strap?

I do not have a torque strap. I’m just using plain old oem engine mounts. Is that a no no? Engine dynoed at 550hp. If the torque is taking my linkage out of alignment. Why is 1st, 3rd, and 4th working? Why would I have to accelerate to higher rpms in first gear to actuate 2nd gear?

 

[ckessel]

What/whose shifter are you using? Bent 1-2 rod? Did you go through the shifter alignment procedure?

 

[padam]

Per the service manual, bad motor mounts can cause hard shifting.
550 hp! That can cause the engine to rock over I’m guessing. Can put the linkage in a bind. It’s just something to check.

 

[NascarFastcar!]

What/whose shifter are you using? Bent 1-2 rod? Did you go through the shifter alignment procedure?

I am using a hurt competition shifter 3216274 3306126. Not throwing out that my shifter and linkage are the issue, I went through each shift individually and checked on the shift rods if it was fully actuated and they all go in fine.

 

[NascarFastcar!]

Per the service manual, bad motor mounts can cause hard shifting.
550 hp! That can cause the engine to rock over I’m guessing. Can put the linkage in a bind. It’s just something to check.

Absolutely true. On visual inspection they look fine. Is there anyway to test if they are loose or worn? Or doing their job? This is a used pair but looked fine.

 

[NascarFastcar!]

Does it sound like a synchro issue? It’s a reach to me.

 

[hemifiedbird]

You could have mismatched synchros. Seen it before 67/68 synchros are different from 69 /70 and if they are not matched it makes it hard shifting. So if you put in the wrong year if you changed them, that could be the trouble. If not I would go through shifter and clutch linkage settings.

 

[NascarFastcar!]

You could have mismatched synchros. Seen it before 67/68 synchros are different from 69 /70 and if they are not matched it makes it hard shifting. So if you put in the wrong year if you changed them, that could be the trouble. If not I would go through shifter and clutch linkage settings.

Didn’t change out the synchros as they looked new. I will wait for the gear oil to arrive, visually inspect the side cover, make adjustments to my linkage and see if there’s any change. Although I still feel as I’m missing something. Guess that’s what the testing part of it is for haha

 

[Cranky]

And.....550 hp isn't exactly good with stock mounts. I would replace the driver side mount (at least) with a solid mount or use a tie down bar or something similar. Is your HP rating a crank HP or rear wheel HP? If rear wheel, you have lots that shouldn't be used with stock mounts.

 

[matthon]

Make sure the gearshift levers are not worn.

If the squared off part of the lever is no longer square, the shift arm will turn on the lever before moving the fork.

Depth of the lever is shallow, shift arm rectangular hole is deep.

Contact Brewer's, send gearshift levers to them, they send back levers with a deeper squared off part.

My trans would run through the gears fine when the engine was not running, but not shift into 3rd.
Basically, it was still in second, just enough, to prevent going into 3rd.

19:38 in the video shows the cover/gearshift levers:

 

[AR67GTX]

Didn’t change out the synchros as they looked new. I will wait for the gear oil to arrive, visually inspect the side cover, make adjustments to my linkage and see if there’s any change. Although I still feel as I’m missing something. Guess that’s what the testing part of it is for haha

I’ve noticed that some rebuild kits don’t have new brass syncro rings. I’ve only worked on a Muncie and a Toploader but I couldn’t imagine tearing a transmission apart and not replacing the brass rings. But if it’s a syncro issue you probably will have a grunch noise or grinding trying to get it in gear.

 

[ckessel]

At a shop I used to work at about 10 years ago, I worked on a first gen Camaro with a Hurst setup. Had a problem getting into gear, believe it was 1-2, although could have been 3-4. The rod was bent more than it should have been. Got a replacement and took care of that problem. One nice thing about the Hurst units, you can get individual items like that.
And look into getting a torque strap.
Factory Style Heavy Duty Torque Strap Cable

 

[Cranky]

At a shop I used to work at about 10 years ago, I worked on a first gen Camaro with a Hurst setup. Had a problem getting into gear, believe it was 1-2, although could have been 3-4. The rod was bent more than it should have been. Got a replacement and took care of that problem. One nice thing about the Hurst units, you can get individual items like that.
And look into getting a torque strap.
Factory Style Heavy Duty Torque Strap Cable

Oh man....torque strap or anything that limits the engine under power is a needed item! Especially with the power he has.

 

[NascarFastcar!]

And.....550 hp isn't exactly good with stock mounts. I would replace the driver side mount (at least) with a solid mount or use a tie down bar or something similar. Is your HP rating a crank HP or rear wheel HP? If rear wheel, you have lots that shouldn't be used with stock mounts.

Sorry, I should’ve phrased that better. The engine was dynoed at 550 hp

 

[NascarFastcar!]

Make sure the gearshift levers are not worn.

If the squared off part of the lever is no longer square, the shift arm will turn on the lever before moving the fork.

Depth of the lever is shallow, shift arm rectangular hole is deep.

Contact Brewer's, send gearshift levers to them, they send back levers with a deeper squared off part.

My trans would run through the gears fine when the engine was not running, but not shift into 3rd.
Basically, it was still in second, just enough, to prevent going into 3rd.

19:38 in the video shows the cover/gearshift levers:

I will put this to the test. I’ll have a look under the car. Currently the shift levers sit flush with the shift lever rods. If it were a bit stuck between third and second, wouldn’t the linkage bind and shifter, or on acceleration wouldn’t I partially have a gear or grinding?

 

[Cranky]

Sorry, I should’ve phrased that better. The engine was dynoed at 550 hp

That's still a fairly good amount of HP for stock mounts. Keep in mind that the HP rating for a 383 wasn't anywhere close to 550. A Hemi box wasn't much different but was a bit better to handle more HP. Chain it down and see it it makes any difference.