Air/Fuel ratio gauges, what's your recommendation?

[pwtjr]

Now that it is affordable to tune our old beasts with modern technology, what is the best air/fuel ratio gauge system? There are a plethora of them on Summit and Jegs websites.
My car is a 69 Superbee with a healthy 440. I am normally pretty good at carb tuning but this car has me intrigued to say the least.
Im ready to spend the money on a good wide band bosh type setup, just want some advice on which ones to look at without just assuming the most expensive ones will be the best for my application.
While Im at it, what kind of numbers should I expect once installed? The thing is rich at idle, and pretty sure everywhere else. What do you guys shoot for in an old muscle car setup? Cruise, Idle, WOT, etc.
The engine has close to 11:1 compression, 906 heads, mild solid lift cam, MSD ignition, 800 double pump Holley, 4 speed transmission, and 3:55 gears.

Thanks guys for any input and taking the time to read.

 

[mosquito13]

following this

 

[mentor70]

the latest and greatest from Innovate motorsports, best deal for the money, monitors 2 banks in one gauge.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/291384110044?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[Icecobra]

To be honest doing it this way is the wrong thing to do. You already know its way over carbureted without any digital gauge to spend money on. So why not allocate the money to get a good carburetor and set things up the right way. If you go to fuel injection system that will have everything you need and you don't need another gauge to tell you anything. And just as a side note I never buy things on fleabay if I have any chance of getting it any place else. A properly steup system and you don't need to spend the extra money. Do it right, do it once.... Just my opinion from the peanut gallery..

 

[mentor70]

To be honest doing it this way is the wrong thing to do. You already know its way over carbureted without any digital gauge to spend money on. So why not allocate the money to get a good carburetor and set things up the right way. If you go to fuel injection system that will have everything you need and you don't need another gauge to tell you anything. And just as a side note I never buy things on fleabay if I have any chance of getting it any place else. A properly steup system and you don't need to spend the extra money. Do it right, do it once.... Just my opinion from the peanut gallery..

funny, im thinking just the opposite, i think the carb is too small...lol

growing up in Utah, at 3600 ft of elevation in the Salt Lake valley, ALL holleys out of the box were too rich in initial jetting.

data acquisition (diagnostics) is the best way to go with an old car, along with a good Holley book and the proper parts for tuning, it would be a great afternoon of learning about your car.

i just came off a 15 year stint of Import tuning, and having Information is where its at!...most old mopars run far below there potential when owners dont know what to do with the car, and have no trustworthy local resources to get the car running properly.

 

[snakeoil24]

Auto meter has a deal right now their analog is 199.00 with a 35.00 rebate at jegs. I willinstall two gauges and it is better then anything we had years ago. Since i am not going to install EFI this is pretty cool.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Really depends on how much data you want.I went racepak because they are supposed to be the best.I really need more than just o/2s.

 

[Mike Gaines]

Hemi-Itis...your car is just sick ! LOL. wow...what a car.
And...in regards to o2 meters. I have researched it quite thoroughly and I am going to buy a F.A.S.T. dual sensor setup from Summit and $417. I have read up it and seen video of it on HOT ROD web site. Looks good to me.
Mike

 

[MT_Mopar]

I have one of these: http://www.wide-band.com/product-p/apsx_d2.htm

Performs really well, nice gauge and nice Bosch sensor included.

I have also used AEM, my Ford buddy is partial to Innovate.

They all work well for A/F and data-logging.

 

[pwtjr]

Thanks for the input guys.
I actually have had 3 different carbs on this car already this year. The 800 double pumper has been the best so far, and the biggest. It does not unfortunately have adjustable air bleeds so I am sure I will surrender and buy a good carburetor as soon as I confirm that I exhaust my options with this one.
I love tuning my cars. That is why it makes all the sense in the world to buy the gauge. EFI would definitely be a nice upgrade and let the computer do its thing, but I'm confident I can get happy eventually with the help of a good gauge.
Like I said thanks for the replies, just looking for opinions on what everyone else runs.
Still looking for numbers on what your gauges read at cruise, WOT, idle etc.
14.7 : 1 is mathematically ideal, but what are you guys really getting in various situations? Just trying to educate myself a bit as this is new territory for me.
Thanks again.

 

[mentor70]

a good AF on crusing will be in the mid to high 13s, low 14s max

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

I got this wide band one off of fleabay lol it works fine and for general tuning to dial it in for what you have it works great. and price was good.

I was able to identify my lean from rich conditions and make all the timing and idle air mix adjustment down to the 1/8" of a turn on the screws. I cruise at 12.5 to 14,3 and hammer down it richens up to the lowest scale which on this one is 9, re programmable if you want. I spent 2 hours cruising around getting to different temps and speeds and all sorts of real world driving and it is consistent across the board.

If I was racing I would probably get the dual one with the software to track and review it all. When I ordered my TTI headers I had them put bungs in both sides just in case

http://www.ebay.com/itm/APSX-D2-Dig...2-White-Red-/281563594388?hash=item418e7f7e94

 

[pwtjr]

all good stuff.
I have hit some other posts on here about carb tuning and A/F ratios and have another quick question:

Anybody have to resort to drilling holes in their throttle blades to get rid of the rich sooty idle? I'm considering this as a last resort obviously, and jumping the gun a bit by posing the question, but curious because a buddy of mine swears it will cure my issues. My idle screws are set 1 turn out. If I turn them in all the way the engine dies, like it should if the power valve is good. But he seems to think a couple of small holes in the blades will take me all the way. I'm definitely buying a gauge and exhausting other moves first, but curious if anyone has had luck doing this?

 

[A383Wing]

I got Glowshift brand on mine

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

No, do you use a PVC? If so try using two valve cover breathers instead see if that helps with the soot. You would be better off getting a new QFT carb than drilling holes. If your not getting enough air to idle it might be an plugged passage inside the carb. drilling holes is the old way of doing things with old carbs, the new stuff has compensated for that.

all good stuff.
I have hit some other posts on here about carb tuning and A/F ratios and have another quick question:

Anybody have to resort to drilling holes in their throttle blades to get rid of the rich sooty idle? I'm considering this as a last resort obviously, and jumping the gun a bit by posing the question, but curious because a buddy of mine swears it will cure my issues. My idle screws are set 1 turn out. If I turn them in all the way the engine dies, like it should if the power valve is good. But he seems to think a couple of small holes in the blades will take me all the way. I'm definitely buying a gauge and exhausting other moves first, but curious if anyone has had luck doing this?

 

[GearAddict]

I placed an order over the weekend for an AEM guage. I only bought one for the moment, but when I go in to the exhaust shop I'll have them add 2 bungs so that I can add a second easily in the future, or move the 1 bank sending unit over to the other side if needed.

I'll try to post the results when I get it installed.

 

[Banzaiii67]

FWIW.. I have this one, it's branded a Summit but AEM makes its for them and their literature is included in the kit. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g2997/overview/

 

[krowbar]

I just installed an AEM. My idle is around 13.8 -14 WOT is 10. I've only had it down the road once so far, but seems to work well. I have the sensor in the left bank. I have another bung in the right bank also. That way I can switch sides. It's a healthy 440 w/ 850 double pump and 727 auto, 2" super comp headers 3.91 suregrip.

 

[SwedCharger67]

I just installed an AEM. My idle is around 13.8 -14 WOT is 10. I've only had it down the road once so far, but seems to work well. I have the sensor in the left bank. I have another bung in the right bank also. That way I can switch sides. It's a healthy 440 w/ 850 double pump and 727 auto, 2" super comp headers 3.91 suregrip.

You are way too rich at WOT if you are running gasoline. For max power at WOT with gasoline 12.4 is something to aim for.

 

[krowbar]

One project at a time LOL. I have 82 primaries and 80 secondary jets. I haven't had a chance to tune since I've got the rear end out changing leaf springs. Rich doesn't bother me as bad as too lean.