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All About Suspension Upgrades

As someone who owns a 10 Challenger RT and a 01 Viper GTS ACR as well as having driven a variety of "performance" cars, I can attest to essentially what everyone is saying here, that a classic car can handle with with new bushings, good shocks, sways bars, good tires and the right suspension components especially if the body is stiffened with subframe connections, torque boxes, under fender braces and lower radiator core support brace. Bigger torsion bars and good springs are a must along with a good alignment. Read @Superbeemike thread (post #2) and you will get all the information you need.
 
Post.some pics, we.love to.see what people.are working on!

I'll start snapping some pics and link the progress in the thread I started forever ago for this car.

Another question for you guys. I'm convinced to not swap things in that don't belong, but I was watching some videos on YT about the QA1 stuff. What would make you consider the QA1 tubular this and that. Help me understand the logic of going to the expense of those upgrades. Again, I just drove the Coronet home the day I bought it and drove it once or twice around the block. I don't have serious hours driving highway or city. Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
To be honest my plans were to have a dual purpose track/street car. My K member had the mounts cut off and was set up for a motor plate once upon a time and I didn't want to reconstruct them after reconsidering running a plate on the street plus I like the idea of a lot more clearance.
Then I found a deal on the uppers and lowers, it would have cost me almost as much to rebuild and strengthen the lowers so I went that route. Throw in billet tie rod adjusters and adjustable strut rods.
QA1 makes quality parts and I never read or heard any bad reviews like the Alternation kits have.
 
What if you run headers? Do you find a lack of ride height adjustability with stock torsion bar suspension so they don't scrape as much? Again, I don't have experience, but I do hear about complaints of headers and scraping. If you experience this, what was your solution?

Ultimately, I want something fun to drive. I'm willing to put some money in it, but not wasted money. I want to drive it, but it's not going to be a competition car. I just want to experience the fun I was denied and that most of you got to live through.
 
To be honest my plans were to have a dual purpose track/street car. My K member had the mounts cut off and was set up for a motor plate once upon a time and I didn't want to reconstruct them after reconsidering running a plate on the street plus I like the idea of a lot more clearance.
Then I found a deal on the uppers and lowers, it would have cost me almost as much to rebuild and strengthen the lowers so I went that route. Throw in billet tie rod adjusters and adjustable strut rods.
QA1 makes quality parts and I never read or heard any bad reviews like the Alternation kits have.


Mike, how do you go about adjusting the strut rods? I was just watching some Roadkill episodes talking about one of the chargers they had and the QA1 adj struts. I now understand their function, but how does one determine how to adjust it to their liking? What are you looking for when you are using it under street/mild track condition? I have the skills to fab up a set up myself and save some coin from buying the QA1 stuff. TIA
 
Superbee Mike has it figured out, Kern Dog and others are spot on. I’ve got simple upgrades on my RT and it’s fun my 72 Charger getting a similar set up.. springs at the correct rate, quality shocks, tight bushings , good sway bars , and some gear box refreshing etc. I wouldn’t compare a 44 to a 8&3/4 two way different animals. Firm feel has some nice stuff I really like their rear sway bar kits and all the stuff the have.. I highly recommend them! SB Mike isn’t afraid to hang out with the big boys with his B, he gets the job done!
 
Mike, how do you go about adjusting the strut rods? I was just watching some Roadkill episodes talking about one of the chargers they had and the QA1 adj struts. I now understand their function, but how does one determine how to adjust it to their liking? What are you looking for when you are using it under street/mild track condition? I have the skills to fab up a set up myself and save some coin from buying the QA1 stuff. TIA
They are solid mount with a threaded adjuster like a tie rod adjuster. Being solid they are supposed to keep the alignment due to the lack of deflection compared to the rubber mounts. I really can't tell you how well it all works together as I'm yet to put a mile on my car....it looks.cool.though! Lol!
I found most of my parts unused second hand condition for half the money. Just have to keep looking daily.

OIP (2).jpeg
 
I personally wouldn’t use anything for the road with a hiem joint on it.. dirt kills them.. just my opinion
 
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I personally would use anything for the road with a hiem joint on it.. dirt kills them.. just my opinion
I doubt it will see 5k miles a year...I'm certainly not.worried about it. I figure what I save in tire wear will pay for a new one of needed...
 
As F4r/t touched on ….steering gear box…..
I can’t help but think that a lot of what seems like bad suspension (bushings,ball joints,etc ). Could be the old worn steering gear. Or at least a major contributor to it.
I’d love to hear thoughts on that. Dave
 
It is common for people to drive a worn out classic car after spending years in modern cars and think that all the old style suspension is obsolete and needs to go.
If any of these people would just drive a properly functioning classic car, their perspective would likely be much different.
When the springs are in good condition and the bushings are not worn out, the classic cars still compare quite well to today's cars. The suspensions were designed around the tire science of the day. Since the 60s and 70s, tire science has improved greatly. The best street tires of today would be considered far out, exotic race type tires in 1970.
A 62-72 B body can be made to ride and handle quite well if the money is spent in the right places. Coil over suspensions whether it be in the front or rear is an unnecessary expense that may also be a step backward in durability. Drag race cars will benefit due to the reduced weight and the ability to tailor the spring rates for track conditions. For the guy that will cruise the car 1000 miles a year with a few burnouts and power slides peppered in, the stock stuff will be just fine.
 
Very well written and very helpful. I am curious about using 4 wheel non boosted brakes. I have a 69 roadrunner project that is going to need a complete replacement of the brake system. Is it worth the cost and labor to switch to disc brakes?
 
Very well written and very helpful. I am curious about using 4 wheel non boosted brakes. I have a 69 roadrunner project that is going to need a complete replacement of the brake system. Is it worth the cost and labor to switch to disc brakes?

Definitely in the front. I don't know if there is any actual benefit to rear discs on our older cars.

If someone can actually quantify braking improvement with rear discs over drums based on real-world testing and experience I'll listen.
 
An easy way to get disc brakes on the rear is to do the conversion that Ehrenberg did in Mopar Action using disc brakes off of the rear of a 03 - 07 Jeep Liberty. You just have to machine the bracket out to fit over the axle flange and they will bolt right on. Lots of Jeep Liberties in the junk yards.
 
The advantage of rear disc brakes is related to reduced wheel lock up and consistent performance. Discs don’t fade as easily and if they are proportioned right, they don’t lock up as easy. Drums tend to have an exponential factor where you can be mildly braking and just a little more pressure locks them up....where discs are more easy to run to the edge of locking.
For a street car that is not driven on a road course, rear discs may be unnecessary.

Edited to add:

I just remembered how so many people quote that the front brakes handle between 60-70% of the braking.
Now, the following is not science, it is just my own opinion....
The 60-70% number may be true for a stock car on stock tires.
A car with stiffer suspension, a lowered stance and bigger tires may not be so one sided. I base this opinion on a few factors. One is how the brake pads wear on my 2007 Ram 1500. I've had the rear pads wear out before the front more than once. The truck is lowered and is usually driven with a bed full of tools. The weight bias is much different than when it is unloaded. I have aftermarket springs, Bilstein shocks and 305-40-22 tires.

Ram Jam 2.JPG



On a classic car with some weight saving upgrades, the car may not be at a 50/50 weight distribution but it is likely better than a stock example. Aluminum heads, Intake, headers, battery in trunk....All of that essentially moves weight rearward, resulting in less nose down brake dive. That should mean that a car can benefit from rear disc brakes since more bias of the weight is back there.
 
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I personally wouldn’t use anything for the road with a hiem joint on it.. dirt kills them.. just my opinion
My old time mopar alignment guy said use poly strut rod bushings, lube them good with silicone grease and the OE rods will be fine. But I did get a set of larger diameter rods from Mancini racing !
 
Hello! I tried searching this forum for threads regarding my curiosity without success. I would love to know if anyone out there has any opinions (I admit that's a loaded question) on suspension upgrades. For the record, I would like my Coronet to handle well. It's not going to be a tack car. I just want to drive it around the metro Detroit area and enjoy doing it. I'm going from a /6 to 440, so I have V8 torsion bars. I'm looking to put a front sway bar on it and a rear (if anyone has experience or has done so, please share). I would also like to ditch the rear leafs and put a coil over set up on.

Not looking to spend a lot of useless fiat on it, but let me know your thoughts or share advice. Thanks!
Are you going to use any light weight parts on the 440 like aluminum heads, intake and so forth? I guess you already know that having a nose heavy car makes it a harder to make it handle good and having a lot of power will also affect the suspension but here's what I did to my 66 Belvedere I 2 dr sedan.....uh, /6 car with factory AC. I did lighten the car to the tune of over 400 lbs before lowering it, sticking on 7" wide cop car wheels with 235-75-15 tires all the way around. Good combo eh? Wait, there's more :D I lowered the front end to within 1" or so from the lower control arm bump stops. Didn't have to do much to the rear since the leaf springs were already pretty flat however, the front end was in pretty good shape for it's age and mileage with around 80k miles in 88 when I bought it.

After checking it out really good but not being able to find anyone that would align it off spec, it was done by yours truely....using strings, levels and a tape measure. Got enough camber that it was noticeable while standing back from the front end but have no idea how much caster it had. After some experimentation, the car actually handled much better and went straight even at speed and over a period of several months, tire wear looked really good. I did some slalom racing many years earlier with another 66 Belvedere but never got into messing with different front end alignments and wheel/tire combos until having a car I could play with and learned about front end geometry. And right, 235-75's on 7's ain't that good but with a car weighing 2950 and with some psi added, they didn't do bad. My other 66 was slightly over 3700 with a 383 in it.

One more thing....I like a car to ride halfway decent in a straight line and found out that big sway bars and not so much spring works pretty well too and of course, shocks are important too.....but my old rag didn't have any sway bars on it at all and still had the full /6 suspension. Found out that big springs and sway bars suck on a big block Cuda that a buddy put together! He went through all of that mess and took off the huge torsion bars after a fairly short time. It rode worse than my 1 ton single wheel before taking out the huge T-bars!
 
The advantage of rear disc brakes is related to reduced wheel lock up and consistent performance. Discs don’t fade as easily and if they are proportioned right, they don’t lock up as easy. Drums tend to have an exponential factor where you can be mildly braking and just a little more pressure locks them up....where discs are more easy to run to the edge of locking. For a street car that is not driven on a road course, rear discs may be unnecessary.

Not to get too far off topic here -

KD, I'm sure you know more than me regarding brakes but for anyone else who isn't aware, the amount of brake pressure that causes rear drum lock up can be tuned with an adjustable prop valve plumbed into the rear brake line. Since the fronts do most of the work you're trying to make the rears hold off on full engagement until the front brakes start to grab.

I'd bet there are enough situations out there where cars are outfitted with big, fancy brakes but still use the OE distribution block. The factory combination valve has a fixed proportioning value which may not be optimal when you're using aftermarket brake parts, bigger wheels and tires, new suspension parts, etc. I don't know if there is some sort of formula or what have you for optimal proportioning range to prevent lock up but I imagine you'd need to start with a brake pressure gauge to know what the rears are seeing and then go from there.

There's a lot of factors that can relate to brake lockup besides valving - weak return springs, parking brake out of adjustment, lack of lube on the backing plates, tire pressure... theoretically they're not supposed to lock up.

Suppose brake fade would be a concern in certain types of racing or even some heavy traffic situations where you're on and off the brakes a lot. Drums can be adjusted to have little to no drag which could help to dissipate some heat. Suppose in some extreme situations air ducts could be used to cool the drums but that seems pretty extreme. Disc brakes rely on some amount of drag so they can get pretty hot too but they don't fade like drums can.

Drums tend to be smaller than discs (also lighter) because the shoe friction material covers a greater area than pads. Drums also can create more braking force per area than discs due to the duo-servo design.

Point is, 95% of the time drum brakes are fine as long as they are adjusted properly, everything is in good working order and the parts are correct for the application. Some new cars still come equipped with rear drums so they must be OK on some level.
 
Also, I drove my Coronet with the QA1 shocks yesterday. They are good. Frankly, the car was handling well before the shock change so take this for what it's worth but I noticed it stays planted and level a little better. Also seems like it has more ability to stay in a long, arcing curve at speeds above 40 mph without feeling the like I have to correct the steering wheel. That's a subtle improvement because that sensation was not real dramatic before but it was there.

These are single adjustable shocks so the adjustments are the same for jounce and rebound. I started in the middle settings front and rear which was way too stiff. I dialed everything back 2 clicks which for now seems like a good compromise. Can't imagine what the firmest setting would be like but probably close to undrivable.
 
I"m posting some pics of the work I did over break. It was nice to shut the computer off, ignore work emails, and focus on quality time with the family... and the Coronet. I am so close to having the whole front end rebuilt. I took everyone's advice and invested in quality bushings. No thrills or frills... just OEM stuff rebuilt to factory specs. All that's left is to purchase the rotors, bearings, and calipers before I can set the car back on wheels again. I still have to pull the /6 k member from the car. I'm struggling to do so, as the car is in my garage and not my shop, where my compressor and impact is.... and I don't have a torch, so I just have to slowly muscle the bolts out of the frame.

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