340runner
Well-Known Member
Thank you very much my manNow ya' did 1991 cat)........
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Anyone have the old DC 440 "recipes"?
- Thread starter 340runner
- Start date
Which model year is your runner?
340runner
Well-Known Member
Its a 71, not like i care about the date on the block anyways. No roadrunner came with a max wedge anyways to my knowledge
Curiousyellow71
Well-Known Member
Why not pick up another 340 block if your not content with doing a 360. 340s are out there. You could do a stroker and save a bunch of time and money swapping over parts off your current 340 and keep down time minimal. Your goals are doable with a small block and if your thinking that painting stealth heads on a bb are going to make it a sleeper, going fast with a 340 b body is even more of a sleeper. Your car has had a 340 in it this long, if you want a bb car it will come, your young!!!.
I bracket raced a friends 85 buick regal a couple weekends ago since our car wasnt ready. The buick has a 377 sbc and 3.73 and is a upper 11 second car. It has iron heads and a hydraulic roller cam, nothing special...but fun. It's a good example of having fun with a small block..even if its not a mopar.
I bracket raced a friends 85 buick regal a couple weekends ago since our car wasnt ready. The buick has a 377 sbc and 3.73 and is a upper 11 second car. It has iron heads and a hydraulic roller cam, nothing special...but fun. It's a good example of having fun with a small block..even if its not a mopar.
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340runner
Well-Known Member
Well, its around me 1000 at LEAST for a 340 block that will still need machined, which i checked and is around 1000$ all in, compared to a supposedly machined 440 block, will check, a forged crank, good rods, and l2295fs for 1000$ also I think this 450 will sit for a bit of time until I can afford because its on a member only classified and not fb marketplace
Then do you think I can achieve my goals stock stroke 340, or will I need a stroker kit? At my planned goals for power and rpm I need a forged crank, so its 3250 + tax and shipping for a stroker kit
Working up, I need new cam and lifters either way with either engine
Then on heads, I have speedmasters right now which need went through on the small block
I dont think the money saved with accessories and small stuff will be offset Because 1. Already got a 383 that had good accessory brackets and stuff, but just had a rusted out cylinder wall because it sat for years without spark plugs in the cylinders, and mice took over
2. 440source is cheap for what accessory stuff i dont have
Then we get to the part where people are saying that a small block especially long armed is going to self combust over 600hp, which i will be well over after the laughing gas, but my machine shop says they have 440s that live over 750hp with a girdle easy, even more with a half fill.
On the sleeper note, I think a painted over 440, including the eddy intake with a big air cleaner hiding it will look more unassuming than a alum headed alum single plane small block, and then the double thing is that they'd think its massively overcammed because of "stock heads"
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Curiousyellow71
Well-Known Member
11.5 e.t. can be done w 500hp and some good 60' times w a stock stroke 340. Steel crank sb stroker kits I've seen for $2500, depending on whose kit it us. Driving on the street, running a bigger engine will make it more drivable. Probably worth it, if you can swing it.
340runner
Well-Known Member
Well can 500hp be done with a stock stroke NA 340? 11.5 e.t. is the starting point, juice for even more fun where tech don't matter. yes I'm slightly unhinged
Also what will the torque be out of a 500hp 340?
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Curiousyellow71
Well-Known Member
Sure. Building a 500hp 340 will be pretty rowdy, it will help keep you unhinged.
340runner
Well-Known Member
Well, i run 4.56s on a welded diff. On the street. On bias ply slicks even on special occasion. I take corners slow, pray for NO rain, hope i don't pop a tire, and its fun.Sure. Building a 500hp 340 will be pretty rowdy, it will help keep you unhinged.
Well, that still doesnt address my whole keeping the block together thing, but I guess that's a later problem. Where should I start? Im thinking l2316f30s, stock bottom end might hold together, will the speedmasters hold up? I've seen they flow like 265cfm, so they in theory work? So that just leaves it to a radical cam and spinning it to hell and back?
Still not sold on the small block idea.... mainly because of the block strength
Also, i just still honestly dont get just HOW a small block would keep my car running longer, when the engine is built its kind of just a pop out drop in affair from small to big block since we are talking same motor mounts and k frame. My car still drives now, so I can take longer to build out a big block and still drive. In fact, I won't have to steal as much from my previous motor, just the carb which is already going to be taken off for the cherry picker
I also dont really go to car meets or anything or cruise as much as I used to, I really just take my car out when I want to go have fun driving spiritedly, so i dont drive that much anymore
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Curiousyellow71
Well-Known Member
Probably near 500.
I do get the bb idea. We have a 65 dart that has a really small engine compartment, it has a 440. I am a bb guy all day long. But I wouldn't rule out a sb if your budget is tight. You are quite lucky to have a 340 for starters. We have a 340 4 speed as well, but its in a duster.
Im theory the heads could work.
But, I am not a fan of speedmaster.
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340runner
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I guess my views have been altered for the worse, at first I really thought my car was the stuff, then I started driving around some kind of quick street cars from my friends Then the addiction grew, and now I want MORE
I dont know, I guess my thoughts is why with the big block is the same thing some guy said to me about the 383. For anything you can do to a 383, you can do to a 440 and have more. I guess the same applies to a 340, just to a lesser extent. The one thing my previous owner did right though was put in a 8 quart oil pan and a high volume oil pump, I dont know why that cam card says power band maxes out at 6400, it has never nosed over on me past that
Some fun idea id had that i dont have the money for but maybe someone does.
Mopar 400 block, 383 crank, 440 aftermarket rods, JE custom piston, 10qt oil pan and a billet pump, and a crazy solid roller that takes full advantage of all the head flow possible with indy heads or ported brodix heads and a sheet metal intake. Crossbolted to try to contain the cap walk from the monster. Go toss it in a e body with road course suspension and a 6 speed, purely to have good top speed. Wonder what that'd pull to?
Might have to try it one day in a couple decades, if the whole thing of classic cars is still legal or supply hasn't died out. Hopefully it doesn't and kids my age will keep aftermarket alive
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Curiousyellow71
Well-Known Member
Quite frankly pistons and a cam swap would be a great start. Do that, gap the rings for NOS and hit kit...and it is what it is. Having goals is fine, but don't let it ruin the fun. There is always a faster car out there. Enjoy it. Knowing you made it faster then the last guy.
340runner
Well-Known Member
Yeah, certainly so. Just there's always the nervousness i guess that this is the numbers original block for whatever that's worth, that i REALLY don't wanna window it
I know it should be fine if I keep it reasonable with the juice, but there's always something that can go wrong, even NA
PsyOps
Well-Known Member
I've read the thread to this point and have some questions. What has you wanting a 440 powered car? Do you already have a 440 block/engine lined up? Are you willing to consider a different big block build to achieve the same 11 second build? Have you considered the need for a big block trans, torque convertor, radiator, headers, kick down linkage and other peripherals if you transition to a big block? And I'm sure you are aware there are a number of DC hyd & solid cams between the .509 and .590? I applaud your recognition of the importance for not hurting the 340 block if it is original to the car. A second engine does seem like the best plan to spare the original 340 and to build the 2nd engine as your time and money allows. Finally, to your original interest in the DC 'formulas', yes they are an older technology back when Chrysler was supporting race programs but are a good boilerplate/starting point to build your car into what you envision.
340runner
Well-Known Member
Okay, what has me wanting a 440 powered car? Well, I had a original post, one of my first where I asked what can I expect out of my car, and a lot of people told me GO BIG BLOCK, as my car is heavy even with a small block. My top end and water pump housing and radiator are all aluminum, and im still at 3800 with me in it. Well, I got that 383 in the other thread, and a lot of people said go 440, as i could do everything to a 383 to a 440 and get more for the same price. Well I was kinda adamant on sticking with what I had, up until that block turned out to be terrible. Terrible pitting. I don't have a 440 machined block with a good rotating assembly lined up, but I'm talking to a guy right now who's old, and is selling all of his stuff so I can get a short block for a 1000(machined 76 440 block, forged crank, resized rods with good bolts, and trw domes). I have a 4 speed and a mcleod street extreme clutch and flywheel already, so from small to big i just need the bellhousing, which I was always thinking of going to a SFI one anyways at the rpm I turn, I dont want to have my legs turn into ground beef. And i want to upgrade my radiator anyways. I know there are many purple shafts between the 509 and 590, but I am talking current new shelf parts and I can only find that mancini racing puts out a 590 and a 509. Well they produce more but what else they produce is smaller than a 509.
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451Mopar
Well-Known Member
The old recipes are nice for a drag car (I think they assume open headers?), and really look at the required converter, gear, tire, chassis parts of the "recipes".
340runner
Well-Known Member
Eh i have mandrel bent 2.5" to the back, and will install cutouts and probably move to a 3" system. It'll be as close to open headers as I can get to without being pulled over. Also cant let those machine gun tips go to waste
Yeah, I have a lot of the chassis parts, I already have 4.56 gear and 28x10.5 inch tire. I really just need to fix my side cover of my trans, which I'll probably do when I pull engine and trans will come with. Makes it easier.
Curiousyellow71
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a great deal on a 440. Your going to need some deals and luck to fit a tight budget. We still run 2295 pistons. Starting out with stock 906s and solid cam we ran a 11.6 with those pistons. 10s came later. I do still have a soft spot for MP stuff, its what we ran years ago. But, IMHO there are better options now..that cost less.
340runner
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it really is. Thats why im on it. With deals and luck, i have 2 things in my favor. First is I'm 17, I think that has some play in negotiating price, especially with this old stuff where people "feel my first world struggle" I guess. Second is these people I talk to are old old, so not like they're gonna use it.
Same guy has a set of ported and dual valve spring 915 big valve heads ready to go for it, think he said another 1000
I know it won't be pump gas, but itll run on either corn or avgas, so that's my other option for heads.
Still unsure if that's really worth though
Both of those prices are before ive worked him through at all, im not going to not negotiate of course im not trying to spend more money than I need
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dvw
Well-Known Member
Being yound and full of enthusiasum. What a great time in life. I remember wanting to have a quick car. My 1st car was a 68 Road Runner 4 speed with a transplanted 440. 6 pac intake some wierd carbs with accelerator pumps on all 3 carbs, headers, and a 3.91 gear. I thought i was a hot rod wizzard reading Car Craft and Hot Rod. Realization set in when i went to the track, 14.4@100. I watched a guy with a 383 Road Runner running 12.80's. But how could that be my engine has a 6 pac and its bigger. It took many years to learn how to build quick stuff. I can remeber telling known race guys they didn't have it right. I thought I new better. Weeeelllllll. Now the reason for my post. Save yourself time and money. Chalk up th e383 debacle to a learning experience. Find a 360 Magnum. since it'll need pistons to make any kind of compression get a 4" crank stroker kit. Now can you afford heads? if not do a little bowl work, regrind the factory cam, get a performer RPM intake. Bolt it in with everything thats on th ecar now. With the exception of rebalancing the flywheel. Do that with the stroker kit. Later on when you get some cash put some aluminum heads on it. not the low ball stuff, Trick flow, Indy, reworked Eddys and bigger cam. You will save money. It'l bolt in. it'll be fast. I just refreshed a 408 for a customer. Trick flow heads and intake, solid roller. Had run 10.30's in a Duster.. with the right gear and traction a non stroker 360 should put you car in the 13's
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