Borgeson for the Black Sabbath. (68 Charger)

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Having a cold here so a bit slow on updates.

Though went and made a new bracket for the sector support so I can start over with the holes attaching to the K-member.

 

[Kern Dog]

The sector support is redundant at this point. The Borgeson is so much smaller and lighter, the support won't add anything but weight.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

The sector support is redundant at this point. The Borgeson is so much smaller and lighter, the support won't add anything but weight.

..and isnt that why the sector support is more needed now?
And I believe that to stabilize the lower end of the shaft can never be a bad thing.

 

[Joske2]

The sector support is redundant at this point. The Borgeson is so much smaller and lighter, the support won't add anything but weight.

No, if you don't strenghten the original steering box support on the K-member, like Kern Dog did, you will see it move without the sector support, especialy with wider front tires.

 

[Kern Dog]

People don't reinforce their K members???

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

And finally the sector support is installed.
That was not easy but in the end when everything was tightened down (except the allens.) I could turn the bearing by hand. No binding here.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I went with the Red line synthetic ps fluid.
It is recommended to use a synthetic oil with the Borgeson unit.
Just as I had bought them I found a post about someone having trouble with the Red Line foaming.
We will see.

Filled the pump in turns, turning the wheels stop to stop over ten times with wheels off ground.
Starting the engine in short bursts and then refill.

The feeling in the steering wheel got heavier and heavier as the oil was filled up.

Stood for the night and no leaks.
Time to road test.

 

[Kern Dog]

There has been all sorts of chatter about the proper fluid to use and it is hard to know what makes the most sense. I'm not one to just default and use the most expensive stuff thinking it must be the best. It is stupid to spend $20 a quart for some fancy fluid when a basic $8/quart fluid works fine.
I went with this:

I saw the wheel as much as anyone you know short of autocross racing and the Borgeson works fine.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

First test was quite the disappointment...

No assist at all, it was super heavy to take the smallest turn.

A small slop between 11:30-12:30 on the steering wheel.


....man, all this work...

How to proceed now?

 

[Kern Dog]

My pump has to "warm up" a little before the assist works right. The cold, choppy idle seems to be inadequate but once the idle smooths out, it works fine for me.
I know that with the stock (Firm Feel) rebuilt box, there was more slop when there was no boost and it tightened up once the boost worked. I suspect that this is the same with other power steering units.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

My pump has to "warm up" a little before the assist works right. The cold, choppy idle seems to be inadequate but once the idle smooths out, it works fine for me.
I know that with the stock (Firm Feel) rebuilt box, there was more slop when there was no boost and it tightened up once the boost worked. I suspect that this is the same with other power steering units.

My car was warmed up, smooth idle.
No assist whatsoever...

It feels like something obvious, liked mixed up lines.
....or a faulty box?

 

[Kern Dog]

The lines are connected right. If the steering felt right before with the other steering box and now it doesn't....Either the system hasn't fully purged all the air or the box is defective.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

The lines are connected right. If the steering felt right before with the other steering box and now it doesn't....Either the system hasn't fully purged all the air or the box is defective.

Steering was fine with the FF box (big center slop though) now the car is undrivable.

I was up in 60km/h with zero assist, felt very dangerous.

When the wheels was up in the air and before I filled everything with oil then steering was very smooth with one hand.

 

[EARLY B]

You need to check the pump pressure at idle and then several different higher rpms. Could be a relief valve sticking or weak pump. Can you see any return flow to the reservoir?

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

You need to check the pump pressure at idle and then several different higher rpms. Could be a relief valve sticking or weak pump. Can you see any return flow to the reservoir?

Thanks, how to check the pressure? I havent seen any pressure gauges that would fit inline in this system.

The box sucked the oil from the pump-reservoir several times, not sure though about return.

I will unhook the return line into a bottle and see if I get return flow when I start the car.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Three things were added to the car: Borgeson box, pump and cooler.

The cooler is only a tube so that one is off the list.

The Borgeson box to be faulty feels like way too typical. Sending it over the pond, customs trouble etc etc.

That leaves the pump, I bought a restored one from one of the big shops, but Ive seen stories about "restored" parts before.

So, I brought out the pump that was in the car with the FF box and decided to clean it up and put in new seals.
Taking it apart I noticed it had zero shims.

 

[JR_Charger]

I'm keeping an eye on this. My box feels great - with the car on jackstands and no wheels on it. Well, I've noticed the brakes turn as soon as I move the steering wheel. I don't have to turn the wheel half way before anything happens now.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I found the error and it is partly my fault for not noticing when I changed pump housing.
The valve was inserted first into the pump, then the spring.

Now fixed with spring first and then the valve (Now the valve with no shims.)

Time for a new test.

Oh and btw, I want this tool: C-3309B

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I raised the front of the car again, started the engine. Now I had pressure!
Bleeding the system 10 times right/left slowly then 10 times really fast....checking the oil my heart sank a bit when I saw all the bubbles...remembering that post about red-line oil foaming....
....though I had gone quite aggressive on bleeding the system, so this could just be all the bubbles leaving the oil?

Yep, after some hard driving (As hard as I could on now icy roads) checking the oil again and it was smooth and clear.

And yes! This is the result I was after...and really happy to achieve it after all this work:

- No center slop, smooth steering. fast turning, full assist at idling in gear at 650 RPM and I regained full trust in controlling the car again, no wandering.
The box is dead quiet, it whines when reaching the stops but that is as it should be.
Together with my wheel alignment I can let go of the wheel in a hard turn and the steering wheel returns lightning fast back to center.
FUN!

The result is awesome.
Im planning to tweak it a bit further as the steering is now between a FFst3 and original, so a bit on the light side.
But this is where the shims come in, correct? Adding some shims would make the steering a bit heavier.

 

[Kern Dog]

I noticed that my Borgeson was lighter in feel than my Stage 3 Firm Feel unit too. I'm still quite happy with it.
Good for you, Jonas. You worked through it and make it perform the way you wanted.
SCORE !