Building a stroker with stock parts?

[motorparts92]

I recently bought an older gentleman's collection of MoParts which included a large amount of old NOS heads, engine parts, etc... and in the mix was a stock 440 crankshaft that had the main journals turned down to fit a "B" engine. I am somewhat interested in making a 383 into a 426 wedge using this crank, and am curious if you 400 stroker guys out there could give me a little insight. I realize i would have to use a set of 440 rods but i have also heard that a stock oil pan won't clear the counterweights?!? I do not see how this is true, but if you have had experience with this rig let me know. I am not trying to make a monster engine, just something different.

Thanks fellers ;)

 

[Garys1969RR]

Hi 92, I'm building a 451 stroker. 400 block, 440 crank. I have alot of info on this. Just let me know if you see this we can chat.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Looks like its working now. So I had my 3.75" 440 crank turned down to 383/ 400 main journal size. All the rods 350 to 440 are the same from factory.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Well the counterweights need to be turned down to 7.25" to clear the block. I just had mine done, and put it in the 400 block, hooked up 2 rod/pistons w/o rings. Turned it thru several turns and it all cleared fine. Never heard of any oil pan probs. Google 440 Source, they have alot info on this. So keep in touch, let me know how it goes. I do the same.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Meant to say rod journals are the same size 350 to 440. Rod lengths vary. I'm using 440 LY rods. I think the longer rod gives a better rod angle, plus a shorter compression height. Results in lighter weight for the piston. I'm using Ross pistons with a C/H of1.320 inch. Gives a deck clearance of .017". And has a 14cc dome.

 

[Meep-Meep]

I'm building a 451 for a buddy and I cut the crank counterweights down 1/8" on the radius to remove some weight with hopes the balance will be in the ball park. I'm using LY rods too.

 

[Garys1969RR]

451 stroker

I believe the 6.768 " rod length is better than a 400 rod length.

 

[Meep-Meep]

I believe the 6.768 " rod length is better than a 400 rod length.

I agree. This is why I used it. It's not so much the length but the ratio when factoring in the stroke. I'm pretty sure that's what you meant.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Yes, the ratio is better with the longer rod. Also the shorter piston top above the rod results in a lighter piston. A good thing.

 

[Supershafts]

USE the 400 ROD....

You are gaining nothing in performance with the 440 rod other than building a 440 in a 400 block....

The ratio is not better, wait explain why you THINK the ratio is better and why and what it is better for?

 

[Cranky]

I recently bought an older gentleman's collection of MoParts which included a large amount of old NOS heads, engine parts, etc... and in the mix was a stock 440 crankshaft that had the main journals turned down to fit a "B" engine. I am somewhat interested in making a 383 into a 426 wedge using this crank, and am curious if you 400 stroker guys out there could give me a little insight. I realize i would have to use a set of 440 rods but i have also heard that a stock oil pan won't clear the counterweights?!? I do not see how this is true, but if you have had experience with this rig let me know. I am not trying to make a monster engine, just something different.

Thanks fellers ;)

Using a 400 block gives you larger bore than the 383 does.....and larger bores generally allow larger valves.

USE the 400 ROD....

You are gaining nothing in performance with the 440 rod other than building a 440 in a 400 block....

The ratio is not better, wait explain why you THINK the ratio is better and why and what it is better for?

Short rod on a long throw crank? Why would you want to use a short rod in that combo? The rod angles are a bit better with a longer rod than it is with a shorter rod and it shows up on the dyno. Short rods produce more angle when the throw is at 90* and this puts more side loading on the piston. Granted it's not much more but every little bit helps. I'm also have a 400 planned with 440 rods but I'm using a stock stroke forged 383/400 crank.

 

[Garys1969RR]

The advantages of a long 6.768 rod are less compression height, which lessens the rock of the piston on the firing stroke and Lighter piston weight. I read that the shorter rod is one end of the ideal length to stroke ratio, while the longer rod is on the other end. I suppose the rod length right in the middle of the 2 would be the best one.

 

[Garys1969RR]

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[Garys1969RR]

I checked out the difference, and the 400 rod at 6.358" gives a R/L to Strike ratio of 1.7 to 1, and the 6.768 rod from the 440 makes a R/L to Stroke ratio of 1.8 to 1.

 

[Supershafts]

Using a 400 block gives you larger bore than the 383 does.....and larger bores generally allow larger valves.

Short rod on a long throw crank? Why would you want to use a short rod in that combo? The rod angles are a bit better with a longer rod than it is with a shorter rod and it shows up on the dyno. Short rods produce more angle when the throw is at 90* and this puts more side loading on the piston. Granted it's not much more but every little bit helps. I'm also have a 400 planned with 440 rods but I'm using a stock stroke forged 383/400 crank.

Side loading....... rocking pistons...... Are you serious... Maybe when you get below 1.5 not at no 1.7

I give up build a 440 in a 400 package.

 

[Meep-Meep]

USE the 400 ROD....

You are gaining nothing in performance with the 440 rod other than building a 440 in a 400 block....
And what's wrong with that?? Didn't Chrysler get it right to begin with? The advantage as I see it is a much lighter rotating assy

The ratio is not better, wait explain why you THINK the ratio is better and why and what it is better for?

It can be better or worse depending on what you want to get out of the engine. All the early engines that we all grew up with have a R/S ratio of around 1.8:1 and seems that plenty of engineers thought it was a good idea. It's only until later as the displacement wars started heating up when things started changing.

 

[Supershafts]

No that thinking is what YOU believe because you're stuck on listening to what mopar engineers said about RR for a longevity issue. . .

Engineers understand cylinder filling,. so why in a motor that is going to be on the street and seeing 800 to 6500 rpm would you want a RR suited to 8k and better?

I have several motors with 1.5 and 1.6 , build them the same way with a 1.8 and they will not make the power they do from 800 to 7000 they do now...

Same as with the 440 built into a 400.....

The entire REASONING to this was to use the shorter ROD, the ENTIRE benefit to the 440 in the 400 was that reason...

When you stroke a motor the benefits are, INCHES and a better RR at filling cylinders without the RPM...

Engineers lie, i can't tell you how many people believe that pro stock and other motors use long rods and big RR....
Those people should buy one and see how wrong they are.

When the 440 crank in the 400 started EVERYONE made and continues to MAKE the same mistake and just build a 440, and then they're all like "this is a killer combo" what the light pistons you never would have bought to build your 440!!!!

All you changed was deck height and a light piston....(better main diameter for speed).. so mill the block and use a light piston, or just use a light piston....

All any of you are doing.

 

[Garys1969RR]

So what pistons would you recommend using in a 451 with the shorter rod? This will be a street motor, 6200 RPM to 6500 max.

 

[Supershafts]

I use JE and Ross in my strokers, and with RR of 1.5, 1.53 and 1.6 no problems, the 1.7 is better than 1.8, but 1.6 is better still, but you'll need to use a gm rod length to get the 1.64 (396/454 6.123) which also means you get to cut the rod journals down to 2.20 making that bearing more ideal, or you can then use the 6" rod getting to 1.6
All that adds to a longer power band

 

[Garys1969RR]

OK thanks, have Ross pistons already. So this my first 451 stroker motor so learning more all the time. Do you need specially made pistons to use with the 6" rods? Or are they available as stocking items?