1. vman01

    vman01 Well-Known Member

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    67 charger front end I am adjusting has always been sensitive going down the road (I suspected -castor). I purchased the offset UCA bushings and also a bubble gauge to check settings before and after.

    My before settings in degrees:
    D side -1.2 camber, -3 castor----- P side +.750 camber -3 castor

    I maxed out the front of each UCA out toward the fender and the back of each UCA in toward frame.
    D side +.250 camber, +1.5 castor ------ P side +3.5 camber, +.5 castor

    Lastly I adjusted the ride height up to remove some of the Positive camber and then adjusted the passenger side to best castor possible setting by moving the front of the UCA in.
    D side +.750 camber, +1.5 castor ------- P side+.750 camber, - 2 castor

    I am concerned by the variance side to side and being able to achieve -.5 camber, +1.5-2 castor with the offset bushings. The problem being the passenger side as I still had room to adjust the drivers side from current position. Is modifying the LCA an option or is there something else causing this. I checked the upper and lower ball joints don't seem to have any play and the wheel bearings are set correctly then double checked the numbers to verify I got them right..
    Suggestions welcome.
     
  2. dvw

    dvw Well-Known Member

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    You get what you can get. As much equal positive caster with acceptable camber. In your case work with the RS first. But my bet is you have more issues. Worn lower control arm bushings, worn strut bushings, RF rail laid inward, or RF rail pushed back.
    Doug
     
  3. dan juhasz

    dan juhasz FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Biggest possibility is past accident as to why you can't achieve desired results. I'm not familiar with these offset bushings. I imagine they are installed in the upper arms? Positive caster is achieved by being able to move the upper ball joint further back. I would be most concerned with getting the camber where you want it. Remember the changes you are making is throwing the toe way off.
     
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    • vman01

      vman01 Well-Known Member

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      Dan,
      Thanks for your response. I don't know much about the car before I purchased it but no body damage or work that I could find other than small dings. Looked like all factory paint and panels when I purchased from the junkyard in AZ years ago but it was loaded on a transport with a fork truck and tires were removed at that time so possible frame/suspension took some knocks. If something is knocked out of wack any idea where to look? Drivers side appears fine and passenger side looks to be the problem

      Junkyard Pic.jpg
       
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      • vman01

        vman01 Well-Known Member

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        DVW,
        Wear on most suspension and other parts were minimum so I assumed low mileage but no gauges or driveline in car. My thought was RS side rail components are out somehow as well. I believe I will need to correct to get any positive caster with the offset bushing. By the measurements I anticipate -3.5 to -4 castor on RS and the offset bushing will correct some of that but will it get me to positive castor, not sure.
         
      • moes

        moes Well-Known Member

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        You said you purchased the offset UCA bushings.

        If you installed them like the instructions in the package they might not help you much. The Moog intention of the bushings are for rusty cars that have sagging frames that bend inward over time.

        The "trick" is to install them like this diagram below and ignore the Moog instructions. The arrows will be pointing opposite directions front bushing to rear bushing.

        offsetbushingsfinal-jpg-jpg-jpg-jpg-jpg.jpg

        First make sure you set the ride height first to what you want. Factory manual alignment specs are no good for radial tires, they only work if you use bias-ply tires. For Radial tires, Camber -.50 to 0 degrees, Caster as much positive as you can get up to 3 degrees and toe in 1/16th to 1/8th inch. Car runs down the road straight as an arrow now. You will be limited to what you can do with stock A arm bushings, but if you have the Moog off set A arm bushing you can tweek it a little more.
         
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        • hunt2elk

          hunt2elk FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          I
          I have always used just one of the offset bushings per side along with a standard one. Sounds like you are recommending using the offsets on all 4?
           
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          • moes

            moes Well-Known Member

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            Yes, use all 4 as in the diagram
            offsetbushingsfinal-jpg-jpg-jpg-jpg-jpg-jpg.jpg
             
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            • MoparLeo

              MoparLeo NRA BENEFACTOR LEVEL LIFE MEMBER FBBO Gold Member

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              Or bite the bullet and get aftermarket upper control arms. Not really pricey anymore. And they have more caster built in than your bushings will give you.
               
            • vman01

              vman01 Well-Known Member

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              Thanks all, good stuff so far

              Moes - have not installed the offset bushings yet based on my numbers I don't believe they will get me to a Positive castor position on the passenger side. I based my numbers on the installation as you identified so we are thinking the same.

              Hunt2 - I believe 1 bushing would get me where I need to be on the driver side as you called out but using both on the passenger side I will come up short without modify or straightening whatever is knocked out of wack. I have not dismissed the LCA bushing yet but once I get into it I want to have a back-up plan.

              Leo - I will take a look at the aftermarket A-arms to see how much offset they can provide. I was also looking at ways I could tweek the LCA position forward, rolling the frame in or cutting and re-welding my UCA. I figured to shorten it up ~ .750 would be enough so I can align with the "Swoosh numbers chart". Just not sure if anyone has an experience with
               
            • vman01

              vman01 Well-Known Member

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              I pulled the UCAs and inspected what I could. No play that I could find so I did the following base on my original numbers and correction needed:
              1. Removed a small inverted V cut from each leg of the drivers side UCA ~.150" and welded up. I then installed the offset bushing as identified above to lengthen the front leg and shorten the rear leg of the UCA
              2. I only made 1 inverted V cut on the passenger UCA rear leg removing ~.500" and welded it up. I installed the offset bushing on the rear leg to shorten it as identified above in the post but installed the bushing in the front leg neutral or centered since my numbers showed my camber needed to come in a lot.
              After aligning I ended up with -.250 camber and + 1.75 castor on both sides. That was the best I could do on the passenger side although I could have sacrificed camber to obtain more caster to some extent. On the drivers side I could have achieved +3.5 of castor which makes sense as an option others may utilize with very little welding and the offset bushings. Also this is not noticeable

              Original factory alignment was + camber and - castor and now we are trying to achieve the opposite. I have some pictures of what I did just need to get them off my phone if anyone is interested
               
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              • vman01

                vman01 Well-Known Member

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                Stock UCA modification to increase caster

                IMG_0450 - Copy.JPG IMG_0451 - Copy.JPG
                 
              • Scott Engelhardt

                Scott Engelhardt FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                Several things you need to know. Adjust ride heigth before you adjust caster and camber. Are you on a turn plate of any type?
                Is this a power steering car? If not then be careful adding too much positive caster because steering will become harder at slow speed. I know everyone has an opinion but this is where I would start. get camber as close to spec as you can I would like to see -.5 to 0 degrees. I would like to see 2.5 caster if you can get that. I would have .5 degrees less caster on the left to compensate for the crown in most roads. You could use .5 degrees more positive camber in the left wheel but I really prefer to use caster as my pull control. Make sure your toe in is not more then 1/8" toe in checked by scribing the tire and measuring the difference front to rear.
                I do not have the exact specs in front of me but these should get your car driving straight.
                The original specs would be for a bias ply tire, radial tires are alot mor forgiving to camber wear so if you are even -.75 even side to side it should be good.
                If you don't have turn plates if your concrete is good and flat you can rest the front tires on garbage bags. Also is your car resting on a level plane? That will afect camber and caster.
                Thats how I would do it.
                Good luck
                 
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