Camshaft suggestions

[BudW]

I am building a pair of stroked 400 engines. One is going into a 4-door and other into a station wagon. Both are ~4000 pounds (not measured). Both cars will be 100% street driven (daily driven) and not raced (except for the seldom but occasional traffic light meetup). A/C and power brakes are mandatory. The only differences will be one car will be 5-speed manual and other will have an adapter to install an 46RH (Chrysler 4-speed) automatic behind it. Both will be (4-bbl appearing) fuel injected.
Both cars are setup for towing – but honestly, I doubt I will sense I have a diesel pickup dedicated for that – but is something to keep in mind.
Both cars will see about 80% city driving and 20% highway.

A lot of power might be left off of the table – but I do not like high RPM's and both engines might not ever get above 5,500. Tons of low end torque and great drivability are my top goals (I gotta make the wife happy, and she is PICKY about cars stalling or stumbling).

What I need is advise on camshaft selection!

What I'm working with:
(2x) 1977 400 blocks
Bore: 4.340”
Stroke: 3.915”
Rod Length: 6.535”
Displacement: 463.3”

Calculated (not measured) compression ratio: 9.63:1
Chamber Volume: 80.0cc (manufactures data)
Head Gasket Volume: 9.458cc
Deck Volume: 18.819cc
Top Ring Volume: 1.598cc
"Stock" Block Deck Height.

Stock (new) Stealth cylinder heads (intake port is 212cc)
Stock rocker arms.
HiPo Exhaust manifolds (I'm also looking for QUIET, as possible, as well as low maintenance).
Torque converter not yet obtained (to get a new converter based off of cam selection/converter store recommendation).
Differential gear ratio not yet determined but probably 3.2 or 3.5:1 (this can change/not yet set).

What I am asking for is your camshaft recommendation (and if you don't mind explaining, why).

Note: the blocks, crank kits, Stealth heads and custom pistons are already purchased.
Note: Comp Cams is recommending either a 252h (21-212-4) or a xe256h (21-221-4). Both seem a bit weak when feeding 463 cubes (...maybe).

Thank you,
BudW

 

[Dajkzo]

Hi,

OK, this will be a fun thread!! You'll have low deck 440. I think you'll be disappointed with either of those cams. Look at the specs on the XE274HL as a starting point. Those heads flow more than stock unported heads. What rear end ratio is a big factor

 

[493 Mike]

Call Hughes. They specialize in Mopar cams and accessories.
Mike

 

[snakeoil24]

Do your self a big big favor reach iut too the best in the business Ron Iskaderian. Son to the proticol of cam makers. Avoid Comp their just not the dedicated with experienced people. Try your best with them

 

[Curiousyellow71]

A wider lsa like 112 or more will get rid of overlap and idle smoother, but moves the torque higher up. A fast ramp cam will idle better when comparing the same .050 to a slow ramp. Manual trans cars we usually go 2 degrees narrower lsa.

Off the shelf, one on the smaller voodoos like the 702 would be ok for the automatic build..maybe a 703 for your manual. You could pay a fee and get one done w a wider lsa. I am not even certain what cam is available as most cams are out of stock. Hughes/ Howard's would have some nice cams, but be careful on the lsa. Don't do less the 110 lsa.

For what you are doing and your idle quality issue w fuel injection I would visit with Tim Goolsby at Bullet cams and tell them what you are looking for. They may even have a cam core to grind vs other companies???

The xe can have some valvetrain noise and lifter quality hasn't been great. Neither seems like what your looking for. Voodoo can have some valvetrain noise too, but less. We really like the ultradyne cam grinds from bullet. They are aggressive but not a crazy fast ramp, can idle well and certainly can open your valves up to make some torque and power.

 

[PRHeads]

Imo, the Comp recommendations are waaay too small.

Personally, I’d probably stay away from the “fast rate”, or “extreme” type lobes.

Something like a Comp 21-305-4, but ground on a 112lsa(or maybe even a 114 for an extra smooth idle).

Or a Crower 267HDP or 271HDP.

Or a custom ground along those lines.

 

[Don Frelier]

I think you would like the larger Summit Cam.
Smooth idle and tons of torque at 2,500 RPM.

 

[camgrinder]

Might want to try the factory 440 Magnum cam, but you will need to close the lobe center down to 109. Dual pattern cam grind and will pull to 5500 even at 109 lobe center. there may be other newer stuff out there but your not trying to break any records. grinding cams for 45 years, you will not be disappointed. I can do this for you.

 

[Challenger340]

* Stealth Heads will be close to or right at 82 CC's as delivered, and big gains can be found reworking the V/Seat angles although probably not needed for this type build.
* as already mentioned....
I will 2nd the suggestion to stay away from any "fast rate" Cam offerings
and
giving the Crower 271 HDP a look
why ?
you don't want any higher V/Spring pressures or rates trying to keep up with faster Cam Lobes.... tough enough keeping Cams in engines these days and IMO any advantages are NOT there anyways within the 'restricted' manifold application, meaning IMO you are wasting your time.
and because
We've used ad Dyno'd V/Good power from the Crower 271 HDP.... surprising in fact, so the Rec comes from experience.

 

[440 Charger]

This is so fun a cam is a cam all depends what you pick for all the other things like motor driving conditions gear ratios do you want gas mileage kinda how you drive and what you want it to do.

 

[440 Charger]

* Stealth Heads will be close to or right at 82 CC's as delivered, and big gains can be found reworking the V/Seat angles although probably not needed for this type build.
* as already mentioned....
I will 2nd the suggestion to stay away from any "fast rate" Cam offerings
and
giving the Crower 271 HDP a look
why ?
you don't want any higher V/Spring pressures or rates trying to keep up with faster Cam Lobes.... tough enough keeping Cams in engines these days and IMO any advantages are NOT there anyways within the 'restricted' manifold application, meaning IMO you are wasting your time.
and because
We've used ad Dyno'd V/Good power from the Crower 271 HDP.... surprising in fact, so the Rec comes from experience.

Loaded question for sure.

 

[BudW]

Both cars will have overdrive (46RH (with BB adapter) in one and Tremec 5-speed (or if can find the extra money for the 6-speed) manual for the other).
Not thought much about gears too much but most likely will be 3.23 or 3.55's (I can build both ratios with parts laying around in my garage).

I don't want go go lower than 3.55's for a daily driver and car may never see a race track. For a everyday gear, without overdrive, I like the 3.23's.
The only racing I will see might be that impromptu stoplight event - but, I will not be looking for those.

For those who replied (or will be) - THANK YOU!
BudW

 

[MelroseMopar]

So I just built a Very similar motor only used 440.. got the 512 kit from 440 Source including the stealth heads only thing I did to heads (Besides spring change) was have the valve angle checked (and adjsuted) I used the Comp Cams .525 .525 CL21-228-4 spec: lift @500 int .230 exh .237 Dur int 275 exh .287 LS110.
Have the Holley sniper set up I chose to go with a single plan intake to maximize fuel atomization as running the dual plane for lower end torque was not necessary and to try to carry torque thru the whole rpm band.. Like you I chose to leave some HP on the table for durability/longevity.. I will never see over 5500 rpm and with my 4 speed have all I want to handle.. 1969 bee 18spline a833 8 3/4 w 3:55's 26" Street tires TTI header back 2 1/2 in.

 

[rikkitik]

I would strongly suggest giving Dwayne a call (PRHeads). He's a great resource, he knows the flow characteristics of those heads, and is a great help with cam selection. He won't steer you wrong.

 

[m79ded]

Tried this on one of my builds and it worked amazing, lots of vacuum , great street manners responsive, Also tried the Crower 271 and those 2 were close, Racing Dyno's the Howards won. LOL!!!
Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft; 1959 - 1980 Chrysler 383-440 1800 to 5400 Howards Cams 721941-12 Lift: .518 / .543, Duration @ .050: 224 / 234, LSA: 112, Fair idle, Hot street & mild bracket racing, Strong mid-range.

 

[BudW]

Tried this on one of my builds and it worked amazing, lots of vacuum , great street manners responsive,

Which "tried this" did you try, specifically?

 

[m79ded]

Which "tried this" did you try, specifically?

Sorry for the poor Cut/Paste Grammar It's the Howards cam, Very impressive.
Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft; 1959 - 1980 Chrysler 383-440 1800 to 5400 Howards Cams 721941-12 Lift: .518 / .543, Duration @ .050: 224 / 234, LSA: 112, Fair idle, Hot street & mild bracket racing, Strong mid-range.

 

[451Mopar]

The stock rocker arms limits how much valve spring and valve lift you can run.

 

[33 IMP]

I would use a cam with 114 lobe separation, at least. (Less overlap). You will give up some midrange torque, but with a stroker i dont think you will miss it, and your fuel injection tune will thank you.
Second the rec for Dwayne Porter, PRHeads here.

 

[451Mopar]

Sorry for the poor Cut/Paste Grammar It's the Howards cam, Very impressive.
Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft; 1959 - 1980 Chrysler 383-440 1800 to 5400 Howards Cams 721941-12 Lift: .518 / .543, Duration @ .050: 224 / 234, LSA: 112, Fair idle, Hot street & mild bracket racing, Strong mid-range.

That looks nice. Quite a bit of lift for the short duration