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Check the balance of your flywheels

hunt2elk

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Pulled the 400 based stroker engine in my 69 Bee last fall to have it gone through as well as a cam swap. The car had a vibration since I restored it several years ago. For the heck of it, I put the flywheel on my tire balancer after pulling the motor and was quite surprised to see that it wanted 1/2 ounce of a stick on wheel weight. This was a brand new McLeod FW202 neutral balance flywheel. I took it along with the engine to the guys doing the work. He just called and verified that it is 40 grams off. Makes me feel good that I found the cause of my vibration, but kind of upset with McLeods quality control. From now on, I will check every flywheel, new or used.
 
Pulled the 400 based stroker engine in my 69 Bee last fall to have it gone through as well as a cam swap. The car had a vibration since I restored it several years ago. For the heck of it, I put the flywheel on my tire balancer after pulling the motor and was quite surprised to see that it wanted 1/2 ounce of a stick on wheel weight. This was a brand new McLeod FW202 neutral balance flywheel. I took it along with the engine to the guys doing the work. He just called and verified that it is 40 grams off. Makes me feel good that I found the cause of my vibration, but kind of upset with McLeods quality control. From now on, I will check every flywheel, new or used.
What kind of balancer do you have? Mine is a bubble stand (can't really call it a machine) and works well with tires that are not too wide and thought about checking my flywheel too but will probably have to make an adaptor for the flywheel to fit on it.
 
This is a great point, now that you mention it.
The flywheel in Fred is a factory heavy-assed 11" unit from Brewer's that had been "refurbished",
whatever that means - but I've only had the local machine shop turn it once and didn't even think
to ask if they checked balance on the thing.
Further, there IS a slight high-frequency vibration in the driveline somewhere....
Things that make you go "hmmmm".
 
What kind of balancer do you have? Mine is a bubble stand (can't really call it a machine) and works well with tires that are not too wide and thought about checking my flywheel too but will probably have to make an adaptor for the flywheel to fit on it.
Nothing special, just an old Coats.

20240215_150501.jpg
 
how did you set the parameters for the balancer being that it is not a rim with typical dimensions the machine would be looking for
Set the diameter at 12", or whatever it is. Set the rim width at 1". The machine doesn't know it if it is a rim or a flywheel. Was just looking for an easy way to check the balance. After doing it on my machine, I took it to a buddies who has a newer, fancier machine. It came up with the same reading. Is it accurate enough to balance a flywheel? No way. But it did show that something wasn't right. The engine builder said that 40 grams is terrible and would definitely cause a vibration.
 
So would this be a harmonic unbalancer or an unharmonic balancer….

:lol:
 
28 grams in a ounce, almost 1 1/2 ounces off. I think the cast crank torque converter weight was somewhere around that.
 
28 grams in a ounce, almost 1 1/2 ounces off. I think the cast crank torque converter weight was somewhere around that.
I never did the conversion, but yeah, that is bad. Apparently it was never checked before it was sent out McLeods door.
 
Very good timing for me as I recently purchased a new McLeod flywheel and RST Twin disc clutch. Included in the instructions was a recommedatiion to balance both clutch and flywheel. I asked two machine shops and both stated the flywheel could be zero-balanced but the clutch would change the balance repeatedly. The flywheel was out of balance by 3 grams.
 
I use the Hunter wheel balancer at work as well. As stated above always bolt your pressure plate to the flywheel and balance the assembly and stamp it to make sure it always goes together as a set.
Gus
 
Here's a simple balance checking fixture I made a few years ago, wanted something to verify flywheel and PP balance at home. My first pass at this was just proof of concept using materials I had on the rack, basically angle iron and some cold rolled shafting. The arbor in the pic below is single purpose, made to duplicate the fit of my crankshaft's flywheel flange/pilot. First the flange was rough turned, then bored to fit the shaft which was then secured in place using red loctite. Then the shaft was set up for zero runout in the lathe, after which the flange itself was finish turned to the exact same size as the crankshaft pilot.
balancefixture8.jpg

This static flywheel/clutch balancing thing is probably seen as a hillbilly hack at first glance. When a crankshaft is dynamically balanced, most shops balance using the end counterweights, basically balancing each end of the assembly separately. Same for a driveshaft. But when you think about balancing a typical flywheel, dynamic balancing doesn't really bring much to the table as the guy doing the drilling is probably going to drill on the backside of the rim either way. Same for the pressure plate, not really a lot of choices of where to remove or add weight. That coupled to the fact that something dynamically balanced is automatically going to be in static balance as well, static balancing the flywheel first and then balancing the pressure plate bolted to an already balanced flywheel makes practical sense, and gives you the same basic location separation that you get with dynamic balancing.

Turned out it works pretty good for what it is, detects an an out of balance 1 gram on a 6" radius when you set it up on a very rigid surface like a concrete floor. I use it to verify neutral balance of the flywheel first, then add the pressure plate to further balance the assembly. To adjust parallel of the support shafts, i just lay the face of the flywheel across both shafts and check to see if it rocks, then adjust until it doesn't rock. Front to back level I adjust with a digital level, side to side i level by letting the arbor roll on the support shafts until i'm satisfied it has an equal tendency to roll in both directions. Here's some pics with an old cast flywheel i had laying around, here you can see the leveling screws installed in the base...
balancefixture1.jpg

Here you can see that one end of the support shafts non-adjustable, just holes for the pins that are threaded into the shafts...
balancefixture2.jpg

Here you see the other end of the support shafts, which go into slotted holes with adjustment screws to allow adjustment for parallel of the support shafts...
balancefixture3.jpg

Here you can see that the old flywheel, supposedly neutral balanced originally, required 43 grams applied to it's rim to achieve neutral balance...
balancefixture4.jpg

After verifying that the fixture worked as intended, I then static balanced a 19.3lb steel flywheel that I had been using on my 355. Sorry, forgot to write down exactly how much weight it took before I started drilling. I had taken a little weight out of the backside a while back, i'm guessing it took about 12g to bring it into static balance.

With the flywheel zero'd out, I then bolted a 16.7lb Ram diaphragm pressure plate on to check it's balance. Turns out it needed 22g. I then rotated the PP 180 degrees on the flywheel and checked it again to verify. Took the same 22g on a 5-1/8" radius in the same "6" location. Looks like depending on how the two were bolted up before, balance of this assembly could have been out a minimum of 10g or a maximum of 34g overall. Ram says they balance to .5 ounce inch, that's about 2.5 grams at the radius i'm working with. That has me feeling pretty good about the 1 gram resolution i'm getting from the cold rolled shafts. Since the added weight needs to be added at the "6" location, i'm going to take advantage of the coincidence and install a shouldered stud in the #6 cover bolt position, then make an appropriate balance weight to install on that stud.
balancefixture5.jpg

This used dual friction disc was only out 1g @ ~ 5". I'm also going to make arbors to check balance of my front hubs and brake rotors as well.
balancefixture7.jpg

Originally resolution of this fixture was 2 grams, but I soon found that if set up the fixture on the concrete floor instead of the not so rigid bench plate, resolution improved to 1g with the cold rolled shafts. The 65lb bench plate in the pictures plugs into a single 2" square receiver style socket in the bench, turns out it moved a little when the weight of a flywheel/PP were rolled from one side to the other. Setting the fixture up on a concrete floor fixed the problem.

Grant
 
I always ba;an e them with the rotating assembly too. I’d be surprised if you’d even feel a 1/2 ounce difference, but 40 grams is more like 1.5 ounces, that you might feel.
Hope it takes care of the vibration for you
 
I always ba;an e them with the rotating assembly too. I’d be surprised if you’d even feel a 1/2 ounce difference, but 40 grams is more like 1.5 ounces, that you might feel.
Hope it takes care of the vibration for you
I would be more concerned about the engine needing to be balanced rather than being able to feel the vibration. You get strange wear patterns on the bearings and some builders blame crankshaft failures on balance issues.
Gus
 
The flywheel in Fred is a factory heavy-assed 11" unit from Brewer's that had been "refurbished",
whatever that means -
Refurbished might mean something as basic as a light skim to give it a fresh look. Doesn't mean a balance job took place.
 
I would be more concerned about the engine needing to be balanced rather than being able to feel the vibration. You get strange wear patterns on the bearings and some builders blame crankshaft failures on balance issues.
Gus
Yep. I do it all, crank rods pistons flywheel etc….
 
I tried to find someone to balance a flywheel and clutch a few years ago and no one around central Arkansas could/would do it any longer. The shops that had equipment said they needed the whole crank, rods & pistons. I said man, I’m just replacing a flywheel not building a whole engine. I checked with every machine shop, mechanic, car buddy, and speed shop in the area without success. It looked like I would have to go to Memphis or over in OK. For that expense I decided to just replace everything new and hope they did a half way decent job in the manufacture. A friend ran across a place in the area recently who says they can do it now. Hope they hang around a while.

I would also never install a new flywheel without checking for warpage and flatness. I once bought a new Hays flywheel and it was seriously warped - it two two machinings to get it flat.
 
I sent my flywheel and pressure plate to Mcleod for them to balance. It was about $200.
Seems like a lot of money to balance a flywheel/plate assy. The digital Hunter wheel balancer works nice and gets it down to 4 grams
 
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